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As we wind down Season 04, we give you a great one from A24.

The Blackcoat’s Daughter feels like an older movie than it is. If it was grainier, I’d think Ti West did it. The horror is subtle as it builds up and it makes you question what you saw and the sanity of others – instead of just your own sanity. For once. There are a couple faces you’ll recognize, especially if you’ve kept up with all of the past episodes. You have, right? 😉

And its got some great sound work going on. Sound to put you on edge without even realizing it. Again, subtle.

Arguably, there are a couple jobs in this one that could be the focus. School administrator? They really suck – I mean, like the worst school administrators ever. Student? Hmmmm. Clergy. Hmmmmm. See what you think the job is.


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Stephen: [00:00:00] So today is Blackcoat’s daughter.

Now just from the title, I was thinking some guys in the revolutionary wartime with big wool coats and muskets and stuff, But it is not that at all. So No.

Rhys: The black coat, it was actually a pejorative term for members of the clergy because they would travel around with those black wool coats and their white

Stephen: collars. Yeah. And I because I was looking at it.

I’m like, so what is the Job in this 1. I was like a demon? He needs a I was like, that must be the job we’re focusing on. He has nobody to possess at the moment. He’s out of a job.

Rhys: So there were 3 that I kinda thought of. 1 was just students. Yes. Student life. 2, it was host.

Which isn’t fits

Stephen: my demon 1, my demon

Rhys: bot. Or 3, it is private school support staff.

Stephen: Which are the worst Administration I have ever seen in my life. It was [00:01:00] horrible, which I didn’t and we’ll get to this. But I didn’t know if it was purposefully trying to make these people So horrible.

Or if it was just the perspective of the students. I wasn’t sure.

Rhys: Yeah. The other thing about this movie is the more I dug into it, the more it broke my spirit. Wow.

I have to say. The film is called The Blackcoat’s Daughter. It is a Canadian and US project. So it is an independent film. A 24 does it.

Alright. We’re the ones who distribute it. It is Canadian because it was shot in Ottawa.

Stephen: Okay. And 8 24 is 1 of the big ones right now.

The it seems like 8 24 and Bloom House Are taking lots of lasagna noodles and throwing them against the wall and seeing what comes out because they each have multiple movies out every year lately. Yeah.

Rhys: It was circulated in Europe and the UK with the title February, [00:02:00] Which was the original title of the movie when it came into the US and when a 24 is yeah. We’ll distribute this, but the name seems can you come up with something

Stephen: else? Sounds like something Green Day would write a song about.

Rhys: Yeah. It I mean, he called it February because he really didn’t have a name In mind. And the whole movie takes place in the month of February.

Stephen: So okay. I guess that

Rhys: makes sense.

Yeah. It premiered at Toronto’s International Film Fest on, Holy cow. In 2015, on this day.

Stephen: Oh, hey. Score won

Rhys: for us.

Yeah. This is the eighth year anniversary of its premiere. It premiered in the US at Fantastic Fest in Austin on September 20 fourth of 2015. It wasn’t available for wide release until the sixteenth of February. Clever.

Yeah. Of 2017. So it wasn’t [00:03:00] available for wide release for another 2 years. It runs an hour and 33 minutes. And, again, this was a film fest, darling.

The only box office numbers you get for return, at the gate was, like, 38000 dollars. It’s not a lot of money.

Stephen: Yeah. But there are recognizable faces in it. There were several that I’ve seen in multiple Other project.

A few of the movies we’ve talked about, but some other bigger shows like Remmer. He was in Dexter and a few other things. Yeah.

Rhys: And now we’re starting to get we’re getting close to the crux Of my angst with this movie Thank you, James. I classify this as literary horror.

Okay. Because, again, it Your viewing it feels more like you’re reading a book than watching a movie.

Stephen: Yeah. It The tension was high partly because they kept things confusing for quite a bit. Mhmm.

But there wasn’t anything Horrific until near the end, and then it’s 1 of those that’s questionable. What is really going on? [00:04:00] Oh, yeah. For

Rhys: sure. This is 1 of those kind of movies where you can be like This is someone going crazy, or is this actual demonic possession, or is this a demon making someone On crazy.

Yeah. There’s all kinds of different ways to look at it. It was shot in Ottawa at, I don’t wanna say an abandoned. It was a private school that was on break, Which is my rock.

Like that. Yeah. Yeah. It was super cold while they were filming it. So when the people are standing there looking cold, they’re cold.

That’s not and when she was

Stephen: explaining about shoveling snow, I could see why. Yeah. She

Rhys: was shoveling snow. Yeah. Because of the weather and the budget, almost every shot in this movie was, like, 1 off.

They There were no second takes on a lot of this just because they didn’t have the money, and it was just too cold to go out and do it multiple times.

Stephen: Wow. That’s Empire Strikes Back on Hoth, but a testament to all the actors [00:05:00] especially the lead. She’s she’s been in a bunch of her stuff, but she’s really good in this movie. Oh,

Rhys: yeah.

Yeah. I think so The main bulk of the film really only has 3 actors. And then there are supporting cast. And even with the supporting cast, they’re probably no more than 5.

So it’s a really small casted film. It was. Yeah. This movie and here’s where the soul crushing comes in. This is an independent film.

It has the feel of an independent film a well made independent film. It is distributed by a 24. They’re known for taking nobodies and putting their films out there. And this is the kind of film that you can look at and, even if you never had a dream of making a movie, you can be like, you know what? It’s nice to see support for the little guy. The writer and director for this was a guy named Oz Perkins, and [00:06:00] He’s not a little guy. That’s the part that kills me.

This is Anthony Perkins’ kid, the guy from Psycho. Yeah. He was acting when he was, like, 12. He was in the Psycho 2 movie playing a younger version of his father’s character. So

Stephen: It’s like when Julian Lennon’s son came out with an album, it wasn’t like, oh my gosh.

It was like, yep. That’s Expected? The wall the wallflowers with Dylan’s son. And

Rhys: so you can look at this and be like, oh, wow.

That’s really cool. And he did a good job. Yeah. It’s just He could have put out trash, and they would have distributed it anyways. You know

Stephen: what I mean?

True. Very true. But you could also look at it in the perspective that He didn’t just get tons of money thrown to him in big distribution and put some crap out as if it was some big movie made by Clive Barker or something. It is smaller.

He started off down like a lot of us. He didn’t have to worry about the funding like the guy with the battery, But [00:07:00] it’s it is smaller from the start.

Rhys: But even the music and the poetry that’s involved the Blackcoat’s Daughter is a line from a folk song that was written specifically for this. The folk song was written by Elvis Perkins’ brother.

Again, they did a good job. It’s just like there was no risk for them.

Stephen: Okay. I yes. And that could definitely take away some of the creativity, the tension in the movie itself just because of that risk.

I get that a lot.

Rhys: Yeah. But I watched a bunch of interviews with him. He is very direct. He’s 1 of those kind of directors where you almost wanna think Twice before you ask him a question because he’s gonna tell you the damn answer whether you wanted to hear it or not.

He did play a young Norman Bates in Psycho 2. He’s written 6 pieces. And his first movie, again, I had no idea. I knew that the same person did these [00:08:00] 2 movies, but I didn’t know it was, like, Anthony Perkins kid was I am the pretty thing that lives in the house, which is A fantastic literary horror movie that watches like a Henry James novel. It’s super slow burn all the way through, and even the end isn’t like some giant culmination.

It’s just like this really well done piece It’s just slow dread through the whole thing. Okay. He has 2 movies on deck. 1 is called Long Legs, And the other is called The Monkey, and I believe he wrote and directed both of the wrote and directed each of those as well. He has directed 4 movies, including I am the pretty thing that lives in the house the black coat’s daughter, and a version of called Gretel and Hansel as opposed to Hansel and Gretel.


Stephen: yeah. I’ve seen that movie. I haven’t watched it, but I’ve seen it. And it interesting that you’re mentioning pretty things, and then we watch this movie because that’s gonna be next season as a preview.[00:09:00] We’re watching movies from directors we’ve already watched movies from.

New, new movie by them, but something else to see their the change or the growth in that and just Yeah. What they else what they did elsewise. So much to

Rhys: say about it too, but we’re gonna I’m gonna

Stephen: wait. I’m gonna It’s gonna be a longer season.

It’s gonna be over 10 episodes just because We were wishy washy and said, oh, let’s just do all this.

Rhys: Yeah. Yeah. He’s acted in 20 films starting with psycho 2 as a kid. He was in 6 degrees of separation, legally blonde, and the 2009 version of Star Trek.

Ah. Okay. And he was also in Nope, It turns out.

Stephen: Oh, really? Yeah.

To go back and look for them.

Rhys: So technically the Blackcoat’s daughter was his first movie because he shot it first. Then he did I am the pretty thing that lives in the house, And that was released

Stephen: first. Okay.

Rhys: So it was shot second, but it was the first 1 that came out, And Blackcoat’s daughter came out

Stephen: later.

And if pretty things would have flopped, we [00:10:00] probably wouldn’t have seen Blackcoat’s daughter.

Rhys: Maybe. Again, he’s Anthony Perkins, kid, baby. Yeah.

And, again, if for some godforsaken reason, Oz Perkins is watching this, it’s a fantastic movie. And it’s not you. It’s just what I had in my head, some struggling artist,

Stephen: and you’re not that. And so If Oz Perkins is watching this, contact us. We’d love to have you on.

We’ll discuss it. No hard feelings. We just love to talk to you.

Rhys: Yep. You can tell me to piss off.

You’re blah blah blah. That’s cool. Yeah. He wanted to make a sad story about a vulnerable young girl, And I think you did a great job in that.

Because the young girl is vulnerable, pretty much Even when she doesn’t seem to be, she still is, which is kinda cool.

Stephen: Yes. It’s vulnerable, but She’s got some power behind her. There’s a couple scenes where it’s thrown off because just how she acts It’s different. And, that’s Yeah.

Again, where the [00:11:00] question, what is really going on here comes in.

Rhys: Yeah. Once he had the location and the characters Set, he said the rest of the movie just kinda flowed. It just poured itself into existence. When he made it, Since it didn’t act like a normal horror movie, he thought he should go the independent film route.

He’s this won’t play in the theater. So we’ll do film festivals, make it an independent, and release it.

Stephen: Oh, okay. So he might be a famous guy’s son, but he’s got a little maturity in his Decision. Oh, yeah.


Rhys: This was not some knee jerk thing. Yeah. Studios a lot of studios turned him down because they didn’t like the complexity of the script. I did see that.

They were like, you know what? The American audience just won’t get this.

Stephen: Somebody should have said that before.

Rhys: Yeah. He found that movies he connected with the best were in the horror vein, like The Shining, Carrie, Let the Right 1 In, The Strangers, Eraser Head, and [00:12:00] Don’t Look Now.

Those were like his inspirational horror movies. He wanted to stay away from brutality in an effort to focus on the emotional impact of the film, and using the brutal scenes is like an Exclamation mark at the end of it.

Stephen: I can definitely see that.

Rhys: It has that philosophy fee has whiffs of the last shift. Yeah. Yeah. Where it was, like, perfectly paced, so to not overwhelm the audience. This is a little more on the subtle end, so it’s gonna seem slower.

But I for me, that gives the actual end more impact That way. And

Stephen: even then, it fits with what, the questionable nature of the girl, the lead, because They didn’t focus on the gore, and she’s stabbing them. And the eyeball pops and blood seats out. You see her going crazy and stabbing, But the gore part of it is a little less until there’s a body with some blood. But even that, it’s really focused on her emotional [00:13:00] reaction or state in that.

And I love that

Rhys: watching it. Some of the creepiest parts of this movie don’t have any gore involved at all. Yeah. It’s just the actress. Yep.


Stephen: wanted really

Rhys: good. Yeah. He wanted to cast it. So and here’s that savviness showing up. He wanted to cast an actress that would bring fans with her when they saw that she was in it.

And so he cast Emma Roberts. And then Emma Roberts is hey. I just recently worked with Kiernan Shipka. You wanted us to call her, and then he picked Lucy Boynton up from an open audition. So of the 3 main leads, Lucy Boynton was the only 1 who was traditionally auditioning for the part and got picked from there.

Interesting. Yeah. He didn’t like the ending. He said he kinda bulldogged his way through the shooting, And he wasn’t happy with what he had when he was done. So then he sat there, and he started [00:14:00] doing the mix, and he started doing Editing and put the sound in and the entire time he just kept thinking this isn’t working, this isn’t working, this isn’t working.

When he finished, he sat down and watched the whole thing and he’s oh, 0, okay. It actually worked out. So he was kinda surprised by how well it worked. Interesting. Yeah.

He also and I think this is, again, a very savvy way of looking at it. He’s this is not a for everybody movie, Which is, especially with horror you don’t wanna come out and say this is the must see blockbuster because it’s not gonna be a must see blockbuster for 1. Someone’s not gonna like the style. And, he come he came right out at the start. He’s look.

This isn’t gonna be for everybody. It’s the movie I wanted to make, And it’s a movie we ended up with. So

Stephen: And just if anybody likes that statement, horror movie not for everybody, We’ve got 3 and a half other seasons worth of episodes to go check out those type of movies.

Rhys: That’s true. Oh my gosh.

I almost forgot. I wanna give a [00:15:00] shout out to Ayanna who is a new young lady who started listening to the podcast. Ayanna, here you go. The Blackcoat’s daughter. This one’s for

Stephen: you.

That it’s your episode. This is

Rhys: your episode. Let’s hope that it, doesn’t hold true or anything. Is she? The main well, the main star.

The first person that he brought onto this project was Emma Roberts. She plays Joan, which is interesting to me because the 1 that he brought onto the Project of the 3 leads gets the smaller of the 3

Stephen: parts. Yes. Yeah. That’s interesting.

Rhys: And here again, this is once and We have a bonus episode coming up, and it’s gonna deal with a lot of these kind of things, but this feeds into it. Emma Roberts is the daughter of Eric Roberts, the brother of Julia Roberts.

Stephen: Ah, cool. Interesting.

Rhys: Again, Super inside connected person being put into this film.


Stephen: And this is jumping ahead a little bit. I’ll mention it. But when she first appeared, I’m like, oh, man. We’ve got the same problem we had with other movies. That now we’ve got too many people that all look alike, and I’m not gonna be able to tell them apart.

Oh duh. Stupid me. Once I figured that 1

Rhys: out. Yeah. She read the script in 1 sitting while she was filming American Horror Story.

So she just sat down, went Front to back. She refers to the script as a novel, which goes to the whole literary horror classification here. She was drawn to the not just the character, but to the whole story. It wasn’t like let Hold the dark where the guy is oh, I have to play this guy. No.

She was like, This story is great. I wanna be involved with this story. That’s cool. Of the actresses, she was most comfortable with working with Stage Blood Because she’s been doing it on American Horror Story for seasons. 10 years or whatever.

Yeah. She is a big fan of The [00:17:00] Others, Which we talked about in bonus episode season 1. Halloween, how can you not be, really? Yeah. Yeah.

And the ring, Which, 1 of your favorites. Yep. She has been involved in 54 projects, And it includes blow, which, I thought, wow. And I can kinda see that. She looks like the angsty drug addle she could play the angsty Drug addled character pretty easily.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. She was in the Nancy Drew movie, Scream 4, Empire State, Delirium, Screen Queens is like a series that she’s very involved in.

Stephen: Interesting. I’ve not watched that, but I know of

Rhys: it. Yeah. And she’s also involved in American Horror Story. She was in Billionaire Boys Club, and she’s got 9 projects in the works, including hot mess, space, cadet, Returns the astronaut, and she is playing Mary Parker in Madame Web.

Stephen: Really? Yeah. Wow. [00:18:00] Okay. Interesting.

Rhys: Lucy Boynton. Lucy is the 1 who auditioned for the part. She played Rose in this movie. She’s not a big fan of horror movies in general. When she read the script, she found that the grief and loss and devastation was fascinating to overcome her adversity to horror movies.

So she’s again, the writing was good enough to suck her into the project.

Stephen: That’s cool. And, really, there it’s not 1 of those Monster every 3 second jump scare horror movies. She only had the 1 big scene that was the most horrific. Yeah.

When you really look at it.

Rhys: She was surprised at the debut how scary it was because she was in it. She’s I never thought I would make a movie like this. Wow. That’s a

Stephen: cool

Rhys: statement.

Of her of horror movies Rosemary’s Baby is her favorite. Interesting. Yeah. Very classic. She was born in New York City.

She was raised in London. And [00:19:00] As of when I was doing my research, she was in a relationship with Remy Malek. Oh,

Stephen: wow. That’s really interesting. Yeah.

And I must say, I know the movie is almost 10 years old now, and I know it was probably filmed several years before that. But the I recognized the 2 blondes. I didn’t recognize Rose straight off, but they all looked a lot younger Then I’ve seen them more recently. Yeah. So that was an and, of course, yeah, it’s a 10 year old movie.

I get that. But it was interesting seeing them that Young because I’ve seen them more recent.

Rhys: You didn’t recognize Rose?

Stephen: No. I did not.

I well, the picture I did see of her when I looked her up, She had light brown hair, and she had black hair in this movie. So that throws me off a lot. I’m not a graphic guy. That stuff, throws me off. You can be a spy really easily with me.

It’s fine.

Rhys: If you wanna know more about her, you can go back to season 3 and listen to our review of apostle because She was the daughter of an apostle.

Stephen: Yeah. I did see that.

Rhys: Yeah.

And she [00:20:00] was also for someone who didn’t like horror, and we mentioned it in apostle, She was in I am the pretty thing that lives in the house. Apparently, he liked working with her. She was in Apostle. She was in Don’t Knock Twice? That’s another horror movie.

She’s been in them.

Stephen: At the time, she didn’t like doing horror movies. Her tune has changed.

Rhys: She was also in Bohemian Rhapsody, and she was in Barbie.

So Bohemian

Stephen: Rhapsody with Remy.

Rhys: Yeah. And Barbie, which is, like, all everyone’s talked about for the past month or so. Past 2, 3 months. Yeah.

She’s got 2 upcoming projects. One’s called Greatest Hits, and the other is called Ruth. Now I am not by any means taking anything away from the previous 2 actresses we just talked about because they both did a

Stephen: fantastic job. Absolute. Especially Lucy.

I because and this is where it clued me in. I didn’t realize, oh my gosh. These are, like 2 different time period scenes. That’s where I got thrown off. But she looked a lot like what’s her name?

[00:21:00] Chipka. And she acted a lot like her. It was really well done. Yeah. Emma Roberts.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rhys: They did a great job, but Kiernan Shipka utterly crushed this role. Absolutely.

Everything about it. Her character’s name is Catherine. She’s referred to as Kat. She was born in Chicago, And she says she hadn’t been as enthralled in a script in a long time when she got the script to do this. After talking to the director, she had full confidence in the project.

She describe and this makes me laugh. She describes her character as a little creepy. Wow. You think so? And it was a role she’d never played before, which appealed to her.

She had just finished on Mad Men. She was a main a big character in Mad Men. So she was looking for some kind of transitional

Stephen: material. Yeah. She pulled it off amazing.

I’ve seen more experienced actors with this Similar type of [00:22:00] character. No pull it off nowhere near as well as she did. She was very riveting in every scene without having Tons of things that she said or did.

Rhys: Yeah.

She’s been involved in 47 projects. Her very first was an episode of Monk. Oh, interesting. That show from back in the day? Good job.

She’s played various roles on Jimmy Kimmel Live. It always freaks me out because she’s not the first person we’ve had who Has been a recurring character on a late night show, which is weird to me. But she was also in carriers Cats and Dogs, the revenge of Kitty Galore. That’s a good movie. She did voice over on Legend of Korra.

She played Genora for Legend of Korra fans, she was in Mad Men the whole see the whole series. She was in the silence And chilling adventures of Sabrina.

Stephen: Yep. Yep. That’s where I recognize her, but I like the silence also.

That’s a good movie. She,

Rhys: Not just because of this might sound shallow, and I apologize if it does, but not just because of her [00:23:00] acting Ability, the actual bone structure of her face, she looks super young. Yeah. Absolutely. And that can carry her for a really long time.

And then you add to that the fact that she can do performances like she did. She has 4 upcoming projects. 1 is called Sweet Heats, or maybe that was supposed to be Sweethearts, and I just Maybe it’s a typo. Typed.

She’s in Twisters. She’s in Red 1 and another movie called Totally Killer.

Stephen: Which is probably a romantic comedy. Yeah. It sounds like it.


Rhys: The movie starts With the a 24 sign, again, it’s a 24 films, I find I like ITC, but ITC on occasions misses. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a bad a 24 film, which [00:24:00]

Stephen: Yeah. They’re con they’re at least consistent. Yeah.

Rhys: The song at the start of the at the start where the credits are going, written by Elvis Perkins, Every 1 of the songs that came up, I was like, oh, wow. That’s cool. Look it up. Oh, nope. He just wrote it for this movie.

There’s no history to it or anything like that. Just Interesting. My brother ups songs. My brother upstairs to the piano banging stuff out. So we have this it starts with this kind of puzzling feeling because you see Kat asleep in her bed, And then her father shows up, and you get the feeling that it’s a dream.

But the kind of her being in her bed And the dream blend themselves a little bit? Yes. But you also note that, you never see your father’s face. He’s wearing a black coat, and the whole thing has this kind of surreal feel. There’s not [00:25:00] much conversation.

She says daddy, And then they’re outside, and there’s lots of snow, and then there’s a crushed up car, and she’s mommy? And then she’s awake.

Stephen: And that whole part there, later, you start questioning was that her father in the sense of Physical father. And, so yeah. Very well done even right then, setting it up for questionable things coming later.


Rhys: There’s there are 3 characters’ stories that happen throughout this, and they’re all interwoven. There is Kat who we’re being introduced to now and you get the feeling she’s at a private school. She’s looking out this window. She’s in a dorm room like high school.

We’re not talking college age. She’s looking out, and it’s cold. It’s bleak looking outside. It’s snowy. There’s a calendar with little heart on a on a certain day.

It says mom and dad and a bunch of So apparently she [00:26:00] her parents are coming to get her, like a winter break kind of thing, and she’s anxious. She’s looking forward to it. She’s been crossing the days off. It goes from there to her sitting in front of the dean of the school. No.

Not the dean of the school. It’s the head priest. And he’s basically saying he’s got something going on. There’s gonna be a program when the parents come, and she’s performing, and he’s gonna miss it, And he’s sorry. And she seems upset by that.

We think. We think. And she says she wishes he could stay, and then she does the math about how long it would take, and she realizes that it’s not gonna work. And there’s this scene where she’s looking over his shoulder with a small smile on his face, and he’s is something funny? And she’s what?

And he’s You were just looking and smiling, and she’s oh, nope. Nothing at all. Her

Stephen: behavior here is very unsettling. Yes. And it’s done very well right there from the start.

Very economical in what she says and her movements, [00:27:00] But she does it so masterfully. It right away that was like, wow. Okay. Keep an eye on this because she’s doing a damn fine job right here.

Rhys: It is crazy subtle as she’s doing it.

And She really reminds me of Medora Sloane from hold the dark. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There’s this Disconnect between her and what’s actually going on around her, and you know something’s going on in

Stephen: that head.

And I’ll just throw this out that comes into play multiple times Is what she’s experiencing, it’s questionable. Is it really there? Is it just in her head? And they I thought Perkins did a really good job making you question that.

Almost to the point where I was questioning, is she seeing what’s real, but everybody else is Not seeing the real stuff. So It’s that

Rhys: when we were talking about in the bonus episode where you’re talking about Europa report and you’re like, What if there were actually entities in green screen and we’ve got a filter on? [00:28:00] It’s like maybe she’s lost that filter and she can see, Yeah.

The bachelor’s Yeah. So Rose there’s actually a little title that goes on. It’s not a title card. There’s just copy that Goes on over the background, but Rose, she’s the cool girl in school. She’s a senior.

She kinda strides in slow motion looking all fabulous and Sits down and straightens her stuff out, and she’s getting her picture taken for school pictures.

Stephen: Yep. And how old are we? I was looking at these girls going, They’re in high school? These are high school kids, and they were probably actually in their twenties at that time.


Rhys: Yeah. And then it cuts from there that she’s brushing her teeth, and then she sees the nurse. She just she has a headache and a sore throat, And their nurse is okay. So you get the feeling that the staff of this school knows Rose, and they’re not big fans.


Stephen: their what they said and did, they were very wooden, which I get, is yeah, like eye [00:29:00] rolling. But They kept that through the whole thing. They were almost automatons doing a job. It was that was unsettling in itself.

The whole admin, all of them were weird.

Rhys: It was. And I think and I could be way on left field here, but what I think is It hearkens back to Charlie Brown. Because when you watch the Charlie Brown specials, the kids are the entire focus. And if an adult needs to be involved, they never show them.

And when they speak, it’s all and it’s kinda like in this movie, the kids are the focus. Everybody else is here. We’ll put them in place as placeholders. Yes.

This is the nurse of the school, but they’re immaterial. They don’t

Stephen: They are cardboard cutouts. If this was a play, I could see the admin and stuff really just being a cardboard cutout with the voice coming, from on stage. I think that would, Actually, that would probably work great. That’d be an awesome show to go see.

Rhys: [00:30:00] Yeah. And I think in Charlie Brown, it’s endearing. Because you’re like, oh there’s this We get it. But here, you’re right. It’s disquieting. It’s wow. Okay.

There’s somebody there, but are they really there? I mean

Stephen: Which again goes back to is what Cat or yeah, what Cat is seeing is more real than the rest of the world around her. Yeah.

Rhys: Rose is sitting there smoking in her dorm room now. She’s talking to a roommate.

Apparently, she’s knocked up. And her roommate’s are you gonna tell your parents? And she’s yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. She’s too cool to show any kind of concern.

Stephen: But I get the sense that she’s very worried. Very concerned. Oh, yeah.

It’s a very small, underlying layer. And didn’t the roommate remind you of Jaden’s Rudney?

Rhys: Oh my gosh. Now you say that.

Stephen: Yes.

Yeah. I looked at her, and I had to do a double take.

Rhys: Do we need to bleep her last name?

Stephen: Maybe I should do that when we put it out. Yeah.

Rhys: You might wanna do that in post. But yeah. [00:31:00] Wow. Even like the excitement when she’s talking to the bad girl. It’s Yeah. We’re all sitting in the auditorium. The Actual dean, not the high pre not the head priest, but the actual dean is there telling them behave well because your parents are gonna be around, and we don’t wanna make the school look bad. And the music throughout this whole thing, Elvis Perkins did a great job. The music is just these simple little melodies.

It’s really no big deal. And then when it kicks in, you’re like, oh, okay. There’s something gonna happen now.

Stephen: Yeah. It’s I noticed that it’s very much Exclamation when they do the music.

Whether it’s a very horrific or an exciting part, it’s an exclamation to what’s going on in the video part of it. But it there’s not a lot of music that you really notice throughout the rest of it. It’s subtle. Very subtle most

Rhys: of the time. And that was 1 of the things in 1 of the later scenes where there’s something horrific that’s about to happen.

You can feel the tension building up, and I’m like, [00:32:00] oh my god. There’s no music playing. And I was like, that’s even creepier. When’s the music gonna start? And then sure enough.

You. Yeah. Yeah. So Kat in is walking around looking lonely in this because, that’s who Kat’s character is, lonely girl at school. Rose tells her friend her friend who is about to leave with her parents, she’s are your parents here?

And she’s yeah, they’re in the auditorium. I’m just gonna go meet up with them. Okay. Have a great break. Because, again, she doesn’t wanna appear to be concerned, don’t wanna stress her friend out.

So her friend leaves. Jaden leaves and then Rose walks in the auditorium, and Kat is up there performing the song called In the Garden. And again, I was like, okay. Let’s get into this. Who wrote this song?

Elvis Perkins just for this movie. And I’m like, oh, man.

Stephen: And even that song, it’s almost like a beginner piano thing. It’s not what you would expect. And she’s doing it not haltingly.

She’s very fluid, But it’s subdued,[00:33:00] and you’re just like, come on. Get on with it. And it keeps going. It’s extended.

It for a pretty happy song, it’s disturbing

Rhys: again. And it’s not a pretty happy song. If you read the lyrics the characters end up dying and become ghosts in the end, and it’s oh,

Stephen: okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I caught that on the lyrics, but it Kinda sounds like it’s supposed to be pretty It does. And that’s even more complicated than what she’s playing. She’s just, Yeah. She just do you sound. Yeah.

Rhys: And she does pause at 1 point to look at 2 empty seats, which were reserved for her parents. Now she’s sitting there with the dean, and the dean’s have you called him? And she’s I don’t have a cell phone. I haven’t gotten 1 yet, and her parents have not arrived. The dean is mildly concerned.

Rose says that she screwed up and told her parents to not be here until Friday or something like that. She’s just stuck here. And so the dean, in a hurry to get out for his break, is basically miss Prescott, miss Drake, You guys take care of him. I’m getting out of

Stephen: here. [00:34:00] And, again, that whole scene. Oh 0, his little talk on the stage That he did. I’m like, wow. This is like the worst administration ever. That talk was so bad.

Rhys: I know you’re all a bunch of heathens, and this place sucks balls, but can we put that away while your parents are around? And that was

Stephen: that’s even better than what he actually did. They must have really spent some time writing it to get the words to come out so the wrong choice of word all the way without being Noticeable. It was all very bland and very he’s talking to 8 year olds. That’s where I caught on the, oh, we’re seeing a lot.

This is the kid perspective, the Charlie Brown thing like you said. Yeah. And If you’re just not thinking about it, it can really be like, wow. That was you know, I could see people not understanding what’s going on with that. Yeah.

Rhys: He uses Rose to illustrate to Cat that everything’s okay. Look. Rose is fine. Everything’s fine. Your parents just [00:35:00] must be running

Stephen: late.

And then the chorus of the 2 ladies, yes. It’s they’re fine. They’re fine. Must be fine.

Rhys: Yeah.

And then he’s Rose, you’ll help look after her. Rose’s no. I’m sick. I’m going to bed. And he’s okay.

You can go stay with miss Prescott and miss Drake, I’m sure the ladies were thrilled about that. If they weren’t, then they will be.

Stephen: The excitement abounds coming up.

Rhys: Kat is calling trying to get ahold of her parents from miss Prescott’s phone, and it sounds like she has an answering machine. She’s just leaving a message. So the women make dinner, and the girls all go to sit down. And there’s this scene where Kat looks down and a spoon is crooked on her napkin, and she stops and straightens it out and then sits back down, Which I think in my mind, because she helped set the table It’s the duality that’s going on inside her head right now? Yes.

Kat just puts the [00:36:00] spoon down, But the thing driving cat is like, oh, that’s not appropriate and straightens it up and then sits back down.

Stephen: Yes. It almost comes across autistic at times with some of her actions. And there was 1 scene. I don’t remember if it was right before this on the phone, but after.

But she’s on the right side of the payphone. And then as she’s getting ready to hang up and it the one-sided conversation’s over, she passes in front of the camera to the other side, and you hear I see. That’s it. I’ve watched that scene a couple times. Am I missing something?

What’s going on? But I think it was a more mental transition going on in there. But I had to look at it sometimes. Did something shift or change in that? It did.

Rhys: You just couldn’t see it.

Stephen: That yes. That’s basically what I came to the conclusion of. But if you weren’t really paying attention, you’d miss it.

I thought that’s wow. Pretty cool. A scene that you know most people are probably gonna miss and never even notice.

Rhys: Yeah. They say they’re they say grace and have dinner.

And then we cut to we’re in [00:37:00] Rose’s dorm room as Rose is getting ready to go out, and Kat has come to see her. And Rose won’t even call her by her name. She just calls her freshman, which, makes her 15 14, 15 years old. It’s a good way to establish the age of the girl. So Rose is going out.

She’s completely blowing Kat off, and she’s makes up this story about, oh the sisters don’t have any hair anywhere on their bodies. Their eyebrows are all penciled in, And it’s because they worship the devil. All the hair got burned off of them. And Kat seems legitimately disturbed by that. And then Rose is don’t come in my room and don’t touch my shit.

Stephen: Yeah. And I thought about that scene afterwards. Rose is disturbed. Why are you disturbed by it?

Maybe it’s because she thinks she’s not the only 1 with what or, what she’s been seeing and stuff. Or maybe she thinks she’s losing this entity that they it’s going to inhabit other people or something. I was like, there could be multiple interpretations on that.

Rhys: There could [00:38:00] be. I think there’s Subtle layer of communication between Rose and the devil in this movie that I mean, not Rose, between Cat and the Devil in this movie That we’re not privy to.

So when and we don’t see it now. We see it later in the film and a flash Back of this scene when Rose is saying that Kat is looking in there and the devil is standing in the corner. Yeah. And so Maybe that was there’s some sort of communication going on between the 2 of them. Agreed.

And that’s what really disturbed her.

Stephen: So we really need to get a copy of the original film canisters and turn the volume up because he might have put some subtle Just talking under it that we’re not hearing it. So do Voce or something.

Rhys: It might be easier for us to get a hold of this screenplay, To be honest

Stephen: not going to hear the screenplay if they added a vocal track underneath everything.

Rhys: Good point.

Rose heads out to this waiting car with her daddy to [00:39:00] be and she looks up and Kat is standing in the window. And then Rose is gone, and Kat goes straight to Rose’s room. Picks up her hairbrush, Which made me think of kill list. Yeah. Where I’m just gonna grab some of your personal effects while you’re not paying attention.

I thought the same thing. And then she’s looking at the school photos, and then the phone rings out in the hall, the pay phone, which kind of sets the setting for the movie because No 1 has pay phones anymore. But

Stephen: Yeah.

Rhys: So she goes to answer she’s looking at the phone as it’s ringing, and now we switch To Joan. Yes.

And I think right here, it says Joan when it comes up.

Stephen: I think

Rhys: so. But she gets off a bus. She’s got this small bag. She goes into the bathroom.

She looks kinda distressed. She looks in the mirror, and she’s having these flashbacks. There’s doctors, there’s orderlies, there’s nurses. She you know, you get the feeling she must have been in some [00:40:00] facility somewhere. She still got a wristband on her wrist.

She takes it off. She heads out to use a payphone, takes 2 quarters, puts it in, makes a phone call. No 1 answers. Maybe there was a recording. It’s hard to say.

And she hangs up. She grabs a map, opens it up, and you can see Ellenville, which is where She’s at. Then you see Bramford, which we know from an establishing shot previously is the name of the school the girls are in, and then there’s Portsmouth If you’re following the

Stephen: road. And it’s really well done because my thinking is, okay. So first of all, now we’ve got another blonde that I’ve got it.

That looks very similar. I gotta try and keep them straight. Tricky. But my thinking is okay. So How are they bringing these 3 girls together, and what’s going to happen?

But not knowing masterfully, It already has been them together in some ways. So yeah.

Rhys: On my first watch, what I was picturing Was you have Joan here. She’s obviously [00:41:00] been in some sort of facility. Joan is a psycho, and Rose And Kat are gonna have to survive Joan coming in and attacking them in the dorm or something like that.

Stephen: Yeah. That’s pretty lame compared to what we actually get. It

Rhys: is. Yeah. It’s a good thing I didn’t write this script.

Stephen: Exactly. Yeah. We’re not good we’re good at tearing them apart afterwards, yes.

Rhys: She is sitting on this bench when this guy pulls up named Bill.

Bill is played by James Rimmer. He’s been in a hundred and 79 projects dating back to 19 78. He was in 2 Fast and 2 Furious. He was in Dexter. He was in Oppenheimer.

So it’s funny because of the 2 movies that were getting all of press lately, Barbie, we have a representative from there. With Oppenheimer, we have a representative from there. Yeah. He does a lot of voice over work too.

Stephen: Yeah.

I’ve seen that.

Rhys: Yeah. Yeah. He asked her if she’s okay. He offers to give her a lift.

She says she’s headed to Portsmouth. And Right now first, I’m like, oh, Jonah’s the bad guy. Now this comes up and I’m [00:42:00] like, oh, no. This is the bad guy. Yeah.

He’s gonna abduct, high school girls or that kind of thing.

Stephen: Every scene seems to have some misdirection once you get done with it. Yeah.

Rhys: And then he’s my wife’s in the car, and she gets in and his wife Linda isn’t too pleased that she’s there. Linda was played by Lauren Holly.

She’s been on a hundred and 2 projects. The 2 biggest ones were Dumb and Dumber, and she did English voice over for Spirited Away.

Stephen: Which is a good resume right there. Yeah.

Rhys: Along with the other hundred titles that she’s been involved in. There’s a bouquet of flowers in the back. They have New York plates and a Brantford school sticker. And the way that all played out, I’m like, oh, okay.

No. Wait. So Now you have Kat and you have Joan. What’s the other yeah. Kat and the other girl Rose.

Rose. Yeah. And now Joan and these 2 people are serial killers, and they’re going to Brantford School, and all 3 girls have to. And I’m like Yeah. [00:43:00] Nope.

Shift back a gear, my friend, because none of that’s happening. Back at the school, Rose has had a talk with her man, and it didn’t seem to go well. Didn’t know what to do. He doesn’t know what to say. I’ll drive you there.

She’s no. I don’t want your help. And then she gets out. Now not only did we have a pay phone on the wall, which kinda dates it, his car is an older model. And I couldn’t tell you exactly what it was, but it definitely is like that late seventies, early eighties, full size sedan kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. She heads upstairs. She looks in on Kat, and Kat’s not there. So she goes in the bathroom.

And while she’s in the bathroom, she’s taking a shower or something. She gets out. She hears noises in the vents. Maybe it’s a voice? She’s not really sure.

And she decides to investigate this giant empty industrial setting, which is creepy all by itself. Yeah. And to add tension, it’s almost like He took a [00:44:00] page out of Ari Aster’s book. Every shot is really long. Maybe just a hair too long.

Yes. It’s as she’s moving through the building. She heads downstairs. You have the silhouette of her against the white walls of the lit upstairs as she’s going down. That almost felt like Baskin.

This is like tying a bunch of movies we reviewed all together. Yeah. Then she ends up in the basement, And she’s moving through the basement. She hears these whispers. She tries calling out to Kat.

No 1 answers. She’s in the steam tunnels, and there’s this kind of abandoned little look and there’s cries and growls that are subtly woven in with background music. I think that was more for us. I don’t think that Rose was necessarily hearing that, but it just like a little extra ratcheting of the tension. Yes.

Definitely. And this is legitimately 1 of, for me, the creepiest shots in this movie. She finds the furnace room and she looks in and the furnace is there. It’s a big fire burning [00:45:00] in it, and Kat is kneeling in front of it. And with crazy rapid succession and precision, bows To the floor 3 times from a cross legged position.

And I’m like, what the hell was that? And the screen goes black.

Stephen: Yes. And right there’s where I started thinking back to the conversation where she’s oh, they have no hair in their body blah blah.

And Kat’s reaction And then this scene, and I’m like, okay. That earlier scene might have had multiple interpretations and meanings with her reaction and what she could be thinking. Yeah. It’s we’ve talked about it several other times. I love these movies that you can sit and discuss.

It’s okay. Do you see it? I saw it. Let’s go talk about it because We could have various opinions and thing of it, which is 1 of the things that happens in some good horror at times.

Rhys: Yeah.

Absolutely. The screen went black. Now we’re back to Joan, and this is where it titles it says Joan. She’s in a hotel laying on a bed, And I’m like, has creepy things happened to her? No.

No. She’s just laying on the [00:46:00] bed. You can tell it’s a bed because there’s 1 of those Styrofoam ice buckets And a hotel phone. So you know that she’s in a hotel. Bill left a note saying he thought he’d let her sleep.

She takes her purse, Dumps it out on the bed. There’s really nothing spectacular in there. Heads to the bathroom and disrobes, and you note that there’s a scar on her left shoulder. And then she turns to get in the shower, and you can see that scar that was on the front is also on the back.

Whatever it was went all the way through her left shoulder. And there’s a flashback of a cop shooting. And now I’m like, oh, maybe she is the psycho killer.

Stephen: Yes. And We’re brown.

So you got that flashback, but what we and I’m gonna this we always spoil everything. You realize later that we’re in a different time period than what we’ve been watching. And you don’t realize that. And I’m like, Normally, I’d be a little gripey about it. It’s come on.

I had no visual indication, but that’s the point. That is the point. And it was done so well that it didn’t bother [00:47:00] me. And I was able to catch up with, okay. I get what’s going on here.

And I thought that was pretty masterfully done. Very well done.

Rhys: I always enjoy films that have multiple characters, and you’re seeing from their perspective, and they’re showing you flashbacks of scenes that have already happened From a different character’s point of view. Yeah. I always really enjoy that.

She has more flashbacks. There’s a bunch of priests. There’s this single dissonant violin playing over the whole thing, which is

Stephen: Yes. It wasn’t screechy like a kid playing it. It was, like, too hard pressed on it, and it was grading a little bit more.

The correct notes, but it well, I was like, wow. Whoever thought to do that little thing. Yeah. It was perfect.

Rhys: There’s a knock on the door.

She answers the door in her towel, and it’s Bill. She lets him in, and he says he’s she he’s just checking in. She sits on the bed. He’s sitting on a chair, and I’m like, okay. Now the creepy stuff is happening.

Stephen: Yes. Misdirection once [00:48:00] again.

Rhys: Yep. Nope.

He doesn’t. She slept for 4 hours in the back seat of the car. He’s don’t apologize to me. And she’s like, why are you helping so much? And he goes into this speech about, do you believe in God?

Because He looks for God in everything that he sees, and she him seeing her out They are reminded him of someone he hasn’t seen in a long time, and he can’t ignore that coincidence. He saw God in her, Which is ironic as we find out later. Yes. That she’s are you guys going to Portsmouth? And they’re like he’s no.

We’re going to Branford. Do you know of it? And she’s like, when are we leaving, and where’s your wife? And I’m like, okay. Here we go.

But he’s she’s still sleeping. We’re leaving first thing in the morning. Come on down to the restaurant. Get a bite to eat. And then he leaves.

Yeah. I’m like, oh, Bill’s Just a good guy. I’m starting to

Stephen: Yeah. This movie is definitely elevated above what it makes you think is going to be happening.

Rhys: Yeah.

And then [00:49:00] we’re back to Rose and Cat. Cat is taking a shower, and Rose is pointing out how much trouble Rose could get into. What were you doing? Sleepwalking? And there’s no answer.

We never even see Kat during these scenes. We’re assuming that Rose is talking to her. And then she’s did your parents call? And she’s in her bed, and she’s no. They aren’t going to call.

And she’s mister Gordon said the worst case is they’d be here Friday, and now it’s too late. They’re dead. And Rose is just hey. That’s not funny.

Stephen: Yeah.

It’s the first slightly grown up non bitchy girl stuff that Rose has done the whole

Rhys: day. Then Kat’s you smell pretty. And Rose leaves, and as she’s leaving, she’s trying to reassure her. Everything’s gonna be fine. It’s gonna be great.

She’s is there anything else I can get you? And Now is, like, where I’m like, oh, okay. I’m starting to see what’s going on because Kat’s no. You had your chance. And I’m like, Oh, shit.

I see what’s going [00:50:00] on here.

Stephen: Yeah. Yeah.

Rhys: The poor, lonely, innocent little girl is gonna kill everybody.

Stephen: Ready.

Yep. Oh, is it her or is it somebody else doing it?

Rhys: Rose gets so nervous, she barricades her door and looks scared. It worked on her. Yeah.

And then if you hadn’t started to get that feel, This scene where Kat is sleeping, twitching under her covers jerking in her sleep, but her eyes are wide open, and then she bends up backwards. Yeah. And it goes to black screen. You’re like, oh, okay.

Stephen: Yep.

And, honestly, the bending up backwards thing, yeah, that was Freaking out, that had to hit you over the head. But her under that blanket or that sheet and the twitching was Very disturbing. Very it was like, what is going on? It yeah. It really was nice.

Rhys: So I thought the twitching was really disturbing, But then when they showed that her eyes were open, that was even creepier, because [00:51:00] my dogs will twitch in their sleep, and I know I do. And I’m just like, oh, she’s having really vivid oh, no. She’s wide awake while she’s doing this.

Stephen: Yes. So here’s the point.

All these horrific and creepy things going on, and there hasn’t been any need for over the top special effects or anything yet. It’s all been the actors. Yeah. There’s a the argument there about why some horror movies flop when they depend too much on that, and it’s never going to come off as well even in today’s

Rhys: digital world. Yeah.

Joan meets Bill in a restaurant. Linda’s gonna give her coat, he says. She’s got another 1. It’s fine. And he’s what’s in Portsmouth?

Someone? And Joan doesn’t really answer. Linda and Bill used to go to this restaurant with their daughter. He says, so you who would Bob would be about Joan’s age right now? They lost her 9 years ago tomorrow, And then they lay flowers on the anniversary.

He’s got a picture.

Stephen: And you’re thinking, oh, it’s Kat because of the [00:52:00] blonde. That’s why it reminded him. Yeah.


Rhys: music, yeah, the music steps up as he’s getting out, And he hands her the picture, and it’s Rose. And Joan stares at it, and she’s she’s pretty. And then she gets up to use the bathroom. She goes to the bathroom. I’m like, oh, she’s gonna throw up?

Now she starts laughing. Yes. I’m like,

Stephen: how many times have you done that now through this movie? I know.

Yeah. It’s oh, wait a second. Everything that they got me to think let me reevaluate. What is this going on?

Rhys: And I think if you compare this to, say Martyrs was going from genre to genre, where it would change from a ghost Story to a home invasion, to a torture porn movie. This is not giving that. It’s seems like it’s in the same genre, But you have no idea who’s driving the boat. Exactly. They’re constantly changing who you think it is.

Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like a shell game. And by the way, Shirley watched Martyrs, and she had a different [00:53:00] perspective and reaction than we had on it. So I thought that was Yeah.

I’ll look what up what she said. I’ll send it to you. Okay.

Rhys: She’s at the sink. She looks in the mirror.

There’s a flashback. There’s someone struggling with the Strangling someone with a belt, and then she holds up this Rhode Island driver’s license for Joan Marsh, which is not her. So she’s claiming to be someone named Joan who she is not. So she steps back out, and there’s a policeman talking to Bill and oh, they’re after her. So she grabs a steak knife out of a bus table tray, and I’m like, what’s that gonna do to a cop?

She goes up Bill, no. He’s we need to leave now. The cops are telling us there’s a big storm coming in. Roads are gonna close.

Stephen: Misdirection.

Rhys: Yeah. So she is in the car alone with Linda. And Linda, of the 2 people, they both might be struggling with the loss of their daughter, Linda’s having a much harder time

Stephen: with it. Even 8 years

Rhys: later. Yes.

She’s what do you need to tell you about Rose? She saw someone once who reminded [00:54:00] her of Rose. She says Bill does this all the time, and she goes into the detailed description of this girl who looked like Rose. And she’s I don’t think you look anything like her. It’s strange.

I can’t even see you at all. And I was like, wow. That’s a really weird way to

Stephen: Yeah. She was very disturbed. Yes.

I did use the past tense. Yes.

Rhys: Not because we’ve already seen the movie either. Rose is waking up. We’ve we’re back to the school.

And Rose is waking up, and it’s this foretelling because the shot is a white pillow, and it’s just like her head on the pillow. And it’s Oh, and if you’ve seen the movie, you’re like, oh, I get it. I see what you’re foreshadowing there. Kat is on the phone in the hall. She’s he said it’s alright, and she can’t live here, but she can live with him.

And she’s telling this to Rose when she comes out. And Rose is what? And then she’s you smell pretty. And [00:55:00] so they’re sitting down for a meal. They’re starting to do the blessing, and Kat is not saying it.

And 1 of the 2 ladies, I don’t know whether it was missus Drake or miss Prescott, she’s kindly repeat grace with the rest of us. And she’s smiling. Cat’s smiling a little bit. She definitely looks sickly. And then she stands up and just vomits everywhere.

Stephen: Yeah. So so I’m gonna ask you this, and this is after watching the whole movie and thinking. So Did she cause her parents accident and death, or did the demon entity do it to draw her in? And is this the scene where up until then, he’s been courting her, and now he’s broken her defenses down. Now she lets him in here.

That, that’s where I started thinking about it afterwards. Yeah. My

Rhys: opinion The devil caused her parents to die, to isolate her, and then started courting her immediately, [00:56:00] And just was like, basically, you are alone. It’s just you. There’s no 1 else, just you and me, and you need to let me in.

And he kept doing that Clear up until she went to sleep that night, and it really sunk in that she was all alone, and that’s when he’s in.

Stephen: And she heard it so much and so often, she believed it. And I think there was some definite mental problem illness, Something going on before that. Yeah. Maybe it was grief.

Maybe she had some somewhere on the spectrum, and that made her vulnerable to this Particular demon with whatever. I don’t know. But you could say multiple things here with that. You

Rhys: could also say that she’s mildly prescient Because she knew her parents died in a dream.

Now I you know, in my opinion, it was the devil that caused the accident, But she still could sense it. Kinda like that whole Danny and the shining thing where she shine a little bit. Yeah. Exactly. And that makes her victim to things that, prey on [00:57:00] that kind of thing.

Stephen: Yeah. Which happened to the in The Shining, but more so in doctor Sleep even.

Rhys: Yeah. So Yeah. So they take Kat into the infirmary.

Again, she looks like death. The nurse is like she’s fine. And then she’s get your hands off me, cunt. And everyone’s jaws just drop.

Stephen: Yeah.

It’s the exorcist scene.

Rhys: Yeah. And before missus Drake can say anything, the phone rings. And so she goes to answer the phone, and miss Prescott is tearing into her when all of a sudden miss Drake, Sounding kind of unsure of herself, calls for her out in the hall. And she goes out in the hall, And Kat is saying to Rose, he really did say he’d come.

He says she can live here. And she says that he says I can live here. And I still don’t know that Rose even remembers this conversation with the dean or, why she’s saying this. The 2 ladies call Rose out, And they’re like, mister Gordon is coming back. You need to shovel a path in the snow down to the earth.

They stressed that so many times in the [00:58:00] snow. Down to the earth between the buildings. She’s like, why me? She’s the 1 who called you the c word, and they send her out. She’s out there showing and she gets up to the porch and goes to go in and the door’s locked.

And she’s yeah. Screw this. And then she goes out, goes back to her dorm, goes to her room, and lays back down, and you get her little head framed on a big white pillow again With her jet black hair Yeah. A vehicle pulls up with mister Gordon and a state trooper, and they head to the house and the door’s locked. He knocks, and there’s nothing.

And they walk around the back of the house. Apparently, she shoveled that walk for basically nothing because they had to walk through the snow to get to the back. You can hear a record needle bumping against the label.

Stephen: The item that today’s youth won’t understand.

Rhys: Yeah.

They’re like, what’s that noise? The music starts to ratchet up. They get to the dining room, and mister Gordon is and covers his mouth, black screen. Yeah.

Stephen: [00:59:00] It’s done very well in this movie.

Oh, yeah. I must say there are movies it’s not done as well. This 1 did it very well.

Rhys: Yeah. And now we go back in time and we get the cat.

This is cat’s part of the story.

Stephen: And that’s where I really Caught on. It’s okay. This is not 1 linear story coming together. This is 2 different time frames of story we’ve been watching and not even really flashbacks.

Just parallel stories Yep. In 2 different times.

Rhys: Yeah. There’s the calendar scene. She’s taking a bath.

And if you pay attention, She’s sitting in the bath with her toes up against the thing, and that was a flashback that Joan had when she was in the bathroom taking a shower. You’re like, Oh my god. They’re the same person. Yes. About there, I’m like, oh my god.

Joan and Kat are the same person 8 years apart.

Stephen: Yeah. And that and that’s where why she laughed because she got Rose’s parents. I was like, wow. The great story here.

Rhys: And then this goes back to again the last shift because she’s in the [01:00:00] bathtub. You can see her toes and he pans out, And you can see this outline of a horned figure reflected against the tiles. So it’s not something she’s seeing. It’s something he’s showing the audience.

Yes. Letting you know that, yeah, this might be in her head, but there’s this thing here she didn’t even know was here. And so we get to see This is like a supernatural possession type thing.

Stephen: Yeah. And that’s where it starts questioning What is really real and what’s not?

Just because they didn’t see it, could it be real? And then you go back to that initial scene. It’s that wasn’t her father waking her up in And in that scene,

Rhys: she goes out to use the phone and then It wasn’t her it

Stephen: wasn’t her biological father. Let’s say that.

There you

Rhys: go. She goes out to use the pay phone. And, again, if you had didn’t pick up on the toes, she pulls out 2 quarters in her palm just like scene with Joan at the negotiation. She puts the phone in. She dials the phone.

There’s buzzing on the phone, and she’s hello? And then if There’s a lot of voice modulation on him, so he’s [01:01:00] hard to understand. And I picked out the following 3 phrases that were said to her. He says, Catherine Yeah. They’re not coming, and then kill all the cunts.

And then I think he said 2 more things that I couldn’t decipher, but I did pull those 3

Stephen: out. And, again, is that really coming through the line, or is she just hearing it in her head? Yeah. Doesn’t matter in the

Rhys: end. Yeah.

She’s eating lunch, and I think this is a perfect thing for people who feel lonely. She’s eating lunch in a crowded cafeteria full of other girls, And she just is by herself. She’s not even sitting by herself. There are people next to her. She is not interacting with

Stephen: anyone.

And the sound’s a little subdued. Mhmm. Movements of their people are a little slowed down in some ways. You see those scenes a lot. Yeah.

Isolate you where you’re moving normal and everybody else is slower, but it’s just enough to be

Rhys: off. Yeah. She’s alone in the music room just staring off into nothingness.

Stephen: [01:02:00] That we think is

Rhys: nothingness. Yeah.

And then we this is the part I was talking about earlier. We get the flashback of her at Rose’s room where Rose is they’re wearing wigs. They don’t have any hair. They worship the devil, And she sounds really upset, and then you can see the devil in the corner. And 1 of the things I think perhaps that upset her is that She had all of these things where the devil’s trying to court her earlier on in the film, and she didn’t believe it.

It was just something in her head. But now Rose is saying this, and he’s standing right there. So I think that’s why she was scared. There’s the school pictures that come next.

The phones rings again. She answers the phone, and there’s a voice that says, you can stay here with me. And then it cuts to the ladies, the 2 ladies Whose names just suddenly vacated my head. Missus Drake and missus Prescott. They are lying on the floor in their house dying.[01:03:00]

I think it might be missus Prescott. They focus on most her throat’s slit. She’s bleeding. Yeah. Then it cuts to the furnace room.

Then you see Kat walking around. She’s barefoot. She goes upstairs to the living closet, pulls out 2 pillowcases, And then comes down and strides missus Drake and just stabby stab. All of them daps are

Stephen: bad. Yeah.

And these weren’t overly dramatic either. You didn’t get the old lady screaming. Yeah. Yeah. It was just Boom. Boom. Boom. Done. Very matter of fact.


Rhys: We flash back to Rose getting her picture taken. That she’s not happy because she sits down and smiles for the picture, and they he lasts longer in this shot. And as soon as the picture’s done, her face goes straight frown kind of thing. But she wakes up.

This must have maybe been a dream because she wakes up, she looks she’s looking at her belly, she’s then she’s in the bathroom, And her period starts, and she’s thrilled. She’s [01:04:00] not pregnant. Oh, awesome. And then the bathroom door opens, And she’s hello? And then the door closes.

And so she gets up, and she goes out, and she looks in the hallway, and no one’s there. And this is where the music was gone. There’s no music. Now I’m like, the music’s gonna kick in. I know there’s gonna be some jump scare or something.

It’s gonna kick in. She walks all the way down the hall.

Stephen: And it’s a long hallway shot like last shift. Yeah. Very much

Rhys: And the door latched. You could hear the door latch. And sometimes, I know. In my work, the doors have the hydraulics, so they can automatically open if you’re handicapped or that kind of thing. And when you go to close them, they take forever.

And then, 20 seconds later, and they close. That happens. So she walks down there, and she looks, and there’s these bloody bags at the foot of the stairs. Now she’s starting to freak out. She turns around and goes back in, and Kat comes out of nowhere.

Just like some shadowy corner, The music kicks in. Stabby

Stephen: stab. And everything else she’s done, it’s [01:05:00] not this big attack and explosion of action. It’s very fast and economical in the movement. It’s just zoom.

She’s there. Boom. She’s stabbed. And then she keeps stabbing. And That difference in how he did that and had her acting on it really made it creepy.

It wasn’t what we were used

Rhys: to. And it’s really weird because you have a Vernon Sloan from Hold the Dark, efficient killer. Bam. Bam. Bam.

Bam. You have Kill List, The guy’s wife, super efficient killer. And in those movies, you could admire that. Seeing it in someone who’s supposed to be 14, That’s disturbing. It was very.

Yeah. No emotional response. There’s no nothing. It’s just Right? And then

Stephen: Yeah.

None of the stab and look you in the eye and pause. It was bump.

Rhys: Yeah. We’re back to Gordon and the policeman at the back door.

Their body’s in the dining room, and there’s blood trails leading off to the school. And oddly enough, mister Gordon is not accompanying the state highway patrolman [01:06:00] now. He’s staying back, probably not in the house. That creeps him out. Maybe just in the cop car.

The cop heads down to the basement, and Kat is kneeling in front of the furnace, and there are 3 heads In front of her. And the officer is yelling commands like, show me your hands, blah blah blah, and they’re all like, Slow down. And modulated. And Kat stands up, and she’s got a knife in his hand in her hand. He’s put it down.

Down. She won’t put it down. She just she puts her hands up with the knife in her hand, and then she’s hail Satan. And the guy’s okay. That’s enough for me.

Bam. Shoots her in the left shoulder.

Stephen: Ah, the left shoulder.

Rhys: Yes. We are now in a dark car alone on the road.

It’s returning to Bramford. Linda calls out Bill for leaving out the grizzly part of the story of the death of Rose, And then all of a sudden, Joan looks like she’s gonna be sick. She’s please pull over. And it happens to be right at the skill [01:07:00] school. And Linda’s don’t you stop here.

Don’t you stop here.

Stephen: And I actually I would push back on that point there. I don’t think she looks sick. She just says, oh, I’m going to be sick.

You need, pull over. It’s that manipulation again, but it’s her same So little emotion throughout the whole thing, just creepiness.

Rhys: Yeah. And she knows Bill’s gonna do whatever she says.

Stephen: Because she looks like her rose, which she doesn’t because she’s not.

Rhys: So he pulls up or he’s pulling over, and he pulls over and puts it in park. And she just reaches up from the back seat, slits his throat, and Linda hears it because she’s not even looking. And by the time she realizes what’s happening, stabby stab. Yeah.

And she does throw up this time. Yes. Young cat does not throw up when she does this because the devil’s in complete control. This is Joan.

Stephen: Now that was twice now that she’s thrown up.

And that’s why I brought up earlier about the devil possessing her there because it’s like That’s when [01:08:00] he possessed her, and that’s where she threw up. And here, arguably, possibly, he succeeded in what he wanted, and he left, and that’s why she threw up again.

Rhys: That’s interesting. We’ll just do this little last bit, and then we’ll talk about that a little more. She takes the 2 heads of her 2 victims and puts them in a suitcase.

She takes that nice coat that Linda was gonna give her and puts it on because it’s hers now. Yeah. She vaguely tries to clean up, which made me think of apostle when she cleans, and he’s suddenly clean after being submerged in blood. She tries to clean up and you can still see blood around the hedges or she’s putting makeup on, obviously, not in a good headspace.

Stephen: No.

Ah, good headspace. She’s got 2 of them.

Rhys: Then we get this flashback to Kat in the hospital. She is strapped down. There’s a priest, and he’s sitting there and he’s looking at her.

He’s Catherine. Then he’s there you are. [01:09:00] And I thought, oh, he’s talking to Catherine, and he’s you’re not wanted here. So he can tell when the devil comes to the fore. Yes.

He’s you will go from this place. You will leave here. You will leave this poor girl and never come back, and he exercises her. Joan is back in the dorm as and they’re intercutting this exorcism with Joan moving into the building and then she’s down to the furnace room, and the furnace is not lit now. It’s dark.

And then in during the exorcism there’s this horned figure standing behind the curtains outside of Kat, And Kat says don’t go, and then it’s gone. And Joan’s in the furnace room. It’s just a dead furnace. The devil is not coming back. And Joan walks out into the road distraught alone, screams, and roll credits.

Yeah. And so I think It’s 1 of those kind of things where the devil comes up to [01:10:00] you with an amazing offer, and he wants you to sign on the dotted Fine. And he knows he’s gonna end up with everything in the long run anyways. And in this case, He signed on the dotted line when she accepted the fact that her parents were dead and she was all alone, and he was with her. And I don’t think The priest really had to do much for the exorcism because what better way to torture this poor human than to be with her And then just suddenly leave her alone and never come

Stephen: back.

Yes. And that’s what happened to poor Joan. She really was crazy because she wanted them back. And that the whole trip Was to get back to there where she was happiest when she felt most secure. Yeah.

Rhys: Absolutely. And even at that, he throws things in her way like, Oh, I’m going to have you get picked up and rescued by Rose’s parents. How perfect is that? And then guess what?

Stephen: I’m still not coming back.

Yeah. Yeah.

Rhys: Good movie. Yes. That is The Blackcoat’s Daughter.

Stephen: And this was 1 of those [01:11:00] movies. Honestly, when I first started watching it, I’m like, Yeah. What’s this 1 about? But the more you watch it and get into it, it’s oh, wow. Yeah.

It definitely has a lot more going on that Seemed at the surface at the beginning. He

Rhys: says it’s not for everyone. I saw a bunch of reviews that would agree with that. Lots of people pan this film.

But if you actually watch it, it’s so well written, and the acting is so well done. Just the craft alone Should make you be like yeah, this is actually a

Stephen: really good movie. Yeah. Yeah. I can see this 1 being like, The film students get together on Saturday night to view it.

Yeah. I think, Yeah.

Rhys: Maybe not for class, because it doesn’t have a whole lot Crazy inlaid woven parts to it, but something that they would watch to enjoy themselves.

Stephen: And it’s this is 1 of those that it’s Almost a hundred percent story that creates all the tension, all the horrific stuff. It’s not necessarily the filmmaking itself.

The story is what set the timelines and the flashbacks [01:12:00] and all that. It really relies on that story. So I could see why what you said earlier That they got into it because wow. I love this story.

It’s literary. It Yeah. Read well. Yeah. That absolutely.

Definitely. So if you like the horror slasher stuff, this is not a horror slasher. It’s definitely much more oniony than other movies. I think that

Rhys: actually helps be helps it be more disquieting. There’s not some crazy, I’m gonna use A turkey baster and suck your eyeball out with it or anything like that.

All the violence in this movie is pretty darn legit. If you’re gonna stab someone to death, you do it like Kat did. You just pop out of nowhere and just start going and don’t stop. Exactly. The person falls down and you

Stephen: keep going.

Yeah. Exactly. And just so it’s clear to everybody, we’re not against horror movies sucking out eyeballs with turkey basters. Oh, no. Not at all.

This movie. So alright. So that’s number 10 for this season. It is.

That’s the last 1. So we have a bonus coming [01:13:00] up that we’re going to watch and then next season. What’s our bonus, Reese?

Rhys: Our Bonus this year, usually, we do comparisons or compilations. We are going to look at a movie called The Menu, which is newer.

It’s probably 1 The newest movies you’ll find on the list, and it is a fantastic movie to talk about jobs and classism And

Stephen: privilege. And it uses another story, put it more into the horror aspect than the original story, you could say, that it’s come

Rhys: from. It is it’s a great movie to run with this theme and have discussions Got it. And, honestly, I came up with the list for this season before I saw this movie. And then I saw this movie, I’m like, man, this would really fit in there well.

And I’m like, you know what?

Stephen: There’s our bonus. Bonus episode. Yeah. There we go.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s how much we plan these. We’re ahead of the curve on it. Oh, wait.

Wait. I just

Rhys: saw this great

Stephen: movie. Yeah. So I actually haven’t watched the menu.

It’s been on my list. I [01:14:00] wanted to see some of this out. So it’ll be interesting. I can’t wait. Big names in it too.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a high 1 of those, high budget type big block bust Blockbuster type movies. But, you know For streaming. Yeah.

But, it was in the theaters Oh, was it? For a short bit. Yeah. And like I said, Horror has just been exploding in the theater. Wow.

When we were still getting new movies and stuff in the theater.


Rhys: was it? Says Reese who obviously hasn’t done the research for the menu yet. Or I’d have seen that by now.

Stephen: Yeah.

Yeah. So alright, man. Cool. Take care. See you.