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Overview
WARNING! This movie and the information on this page contains very graphic and disturbing images and ideas.
We start off season 01 with a bang. As Rhys says, one of the heaviest movies he’s ever seen. This movie doesn’t pull punches, but it doesn’t do all the gratuitous violence and screwing with your mind for jump scares. By the end, you might be questioning your own morals and values. Take a look and see what you think.
This is not the American remake. We may review that for a bonus episode. This is the original, and it’s much more disturbing. This movie is not suitable for kids, at all.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1029234/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_(2008_film)
If you watched the movie, let us know what you think below. If you didn’t, we understand.
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Transcript
Stephen 0:47
Alright, so here we are Reese welcome. season one episode one.
Rhys 0:52
Yes. martyrs. Mark quite the deep dive.
Stephen 0:57
Yeah, you said this is probably the heaviest one. And it’s, you know, as a warning for anyone listening. First of all, there’s gonna be spoilers. We’re talking about the movie. So, you know, you don’t want to hear that you might want to go watch it first. But second warning, this one is not for the kids. This is no.
Rhys 1:19
Not for your parents. Maybe not even for your spouse.
Stephen 1:22
Right? It’s, you know, honestly, you may not even admit you saw this one. It’s pretty gruesome. Actually.
Rhys 1:30
Yeah. If you read my listing and my movie list, it actually says what a great movie it is, and how much I loved it. And then at the end, it’s like, I never want to see this again. And so you did. And so I did. Yeah. Just to share it with you, Steve. Right. That’s special that way. That’s right. All right. So
Stephen 1:49
let’s talk a bit about it. So give us the movie. You know, the director, writer actors, that type of thing.
Rhys 1:57
Okay. The movie what came out in 2008. It debuted at Cannes, two very controversial release. Really, you had you had people walking out of the theater? When it came out? It was written and directed by the same individual. His name is Pascal luggie. A. He’s a French guy. He was the assistant director to Christophe GaNS. And Christophe GaNS. You might know some of his work brotherhood of the wolf. It was like his most critically acclaimed film, actually not. Okay. But he also was the director for the first Silent Hill movie. So that’s where Pascal luggie came from. His first movie was a movie called St. enge. And a really interesting little side note about Pascal, he’s language is very important to him. And the movie was shot in Belgium. And he shot the whole movie twice, he shot it once in English, and once in French, so that you wouldn’t have to worry about dubbing or anything like that. Because the audience’s he was going to release it to mostly spoke French in English.
Stephen 3:22
I think that would be an awesome little side project that we get both copies, put them up side by side, and then sit on the couch, have a beer and watch each of them, you know, scene by scene and compare.
Rhys 3:34
Yeah, it is. It’s a good movie, but it’s nowhere near as serious as martyrs. martyrs was a collaboration with Canadian film company as well, it was a French Canada Film Company, because he had trouble finding financing for it, once people would read the script.
Stephen 3:55
That’s understandable. And it’s interesting to note, too, that a lot of these movies that would go against American sensibilities are from other countries, and it’s really hard to find and dig up because, you know, there’s too much American Oh, no, we can’t watch that. That’s horrible, blah, blah, blah, missing what the point or, you know, giving the freedom of the art. So it’s just interesting to note that, yeah, a movie like this. It’s foreign. Usually.
Rhys 4:26
He actually shot it in Quebec. So he being from France, he came to Canada to film the movie. It was not a box office smash, believe it or not, yes.
Stephen 4:44
You know, stay at home watch martyrs or go see fast nine. I wasn’t right.
Rhys 4:50
Yes. A lot of people have that problem. Yeah. It cost him 3.4 million to make it and it only grossed 1.1 million. On the back end when it was release, mostly I would guess because a lot of theaters wouldn’t show it in the theater,
Stephen 5:08
and we had a hard time finding it for streaming. We did find it on iTunes. You didn’t buy it.
Rhys 5:14
Yeah, YouTube also has it, but they will not rent it to you have to buy it. So if you’re going to look at YouTube, I plan on having this gem of a movie with you forever.
Stephen 5:25
Yeah, you’re sitting down with your new fiance’s grandmother flipping through movies and that one, right?
Rhys 5:32
That sounds like something from church.
Stephen 5:37
Yeah, it is.
Rhys 5:39
Yeah, kind of.
Stephen 5:42
Let me let me ask you, because everything we do is horror. What sub genre would you put this into? would you classify?
Rhys 5:49
Now this is fascinating topic. And to tell you this story, I gotta tell you this one first. In the well, it’s in the 70s. It was called exploitation films. In the 90s. They were called torture porn, right? And like to famous torture porn titles that came out of the 90s saw, which pretty much everyone who’s interested in horror has heard of, and the other one was hostile, which is a little rarer. It was an Eli Roth film. He’s known for making horribly gruesome, gritty films. But both of those films were inspirations to lug EA when he decided to make this movie. So he made the film. And after he did, a new genre of film, was born and it was called French extract at French extremity, the new French extremity. Wow, it was actually a film, a movie critic had written a scathing piece about this movie and several the others that came out in the early 2000s. And he called it new French extremity, hoping that it would be like an insult. But it became embraced. And so that’s why if you see French films from the early 2000s, part of the new extremity movement, or new French extremism, they tend to be very brutal films, tackling very heavy topics A lot of times, and it started to kind of migrate out from there. So you would start to see new French extremist films in Belgium, in Germany in Spain, to the point that they’re just trying to call it the new extremism now instead of the new French extremism.
Stephen 7:54
Wow. And, you know, I can see where that title fits. Because you know, we kind of got rid of all expectations of Oh, you’re going to review horror movies? Yeah. wait to see the first episode. You right? Definitely. I could very well see you know, to warn anybody. All of our movies are not gonna be like this. The next one, in fact, is much easier. Oh, yeah. So
Rhys 8:18
it’s, yeah, it’s a lot, a lot more relaxed than this. This movie, one of the things that I loved about this movie is one of the reasons I would recommend if you haven’t seen it, you watch it before you listen to us talk about it. Within the first year, yes, stop. Stop the podcast now. Okay, and you’re never within the first 40 minutes what you think this movie is changes four or five times?
Stephen 8:45
I was going to say that because I was making notes on what I would classify it as and I like, oh, scratch that out, but redo it. So what before we go much further, why don’t you give us a synopsis of the movie, of what it’s about, you know, I don’t know of a TV Guide synopsis would work because TV Guide will never show this. I’m sure that’s right. Never talk about it.
Rhys 9:06
So the movie starts out as kind of a mystery. You have a little girl running through the streets, somewhere in Quebec, and she’s obviously she’s dirty, she’s beat up. She gets rescued by the French version of Health and Human Services and is placed into an orphanage or a state home where she makes a friend and her name is Lucy and her friend’s name is Anna. And
Stephen 9:35
I’ll just jump in that whole beginning sequence up to the opening credits. I thought that was one of those here’s the ending and now we’re go leader and it wasn’t the that was my expectation. So that right there threw me off a bit.
Rhys 9:49
Yeah, it was it was kind of a prequel actually. And you get the sense like at night when Lucy is asleep. There will be sounds of Something stalking her in the dark. And even sometimes it will manifest itself as like a humanoid figure that like crouches at the side of her bed and things like that. And I know the first time I saw it, I was wondering, Is this an actual thing? Right? And that’s that’s where the genre shifting happens here because I’m like, it’s a ghost story. And then it turns out, it’s not the jump 15 years in the future from that point. And it jumps seemingly bizarrely to a modern family having breakfast, just sitting down and you know, the sister and brother are fighting over something and the moms doing something the dads getting ready for work. And it’s just this absolute perfect picture of a French Canadian group, you know, in the morning, and the doorbell rings, and the dad opens the door to a shotgun blast to the chest.
Stephen 11:00
And that to totally blows expectations because American audiences you’re used to some monologue conversation something to clue you in. No, the door opens the shotgun comes up, she shoots, comes running and shoots the month. It’s like just screaming and chaos.
Rhys 11:18
Yes. Now suddenly, the movie is gone from a ghost story to a home invasion story.
Stephen 11:22
Yeah, like and it’s it keep going, go. Go ahead.
Rhys 11:26
Well, are you looking at the actress who comes in at that point in time? You’re like, I think this might be Lucy. And the mother tries to run, she shoots her. The little girl runs off. The boy sits there stunned at the kitchen table. She asked him how old he is. He says he’s 18. She shoots him. And then she tracks down the little girl shoots her too. Right. And another thing you won’t see often in American films.
Stephen 12:00
Right. And it and it was brutal. I mean, they didn’t just get hit and fall down like old Western. Oh, um, shot. It was like flying across smashing into the wall. Yeah. Wow, those kids that were doing the acting, whatever. I was like, that was pretty impressed. Yeah,
Rhys 12:17
lucky. He does this thing when he’s likes to get in close with the camera. He likes to zoom in really tight. There’s a scene where a police officer is interviewing Lucy or not Lucy’s interviewing Anna about Lucy, right? When they’re children. And he zooms in so close, you can see the pores on the guy’s nose. It was like, it’s a perfect example for how he’s going to lay bare all the ugliness of society, you know. And so he does the same thing. Like there’s the shot of the little girl laying face down. She’s been shot. She’s lying on the floor, and there’s little bloody bits, like around like, visceral chunks of things. Right? It was really gruesome. Yeah. And she then does
Stephen 12:59
no good.
Rhys 13:00
She then does what, you know, any good friend would do. She calls her best friend and says hey, guess where I am? And and rightfully freaks out hearing that Lucy’s in the home of the people that she thinks were the people who abducted her as a child and tortured her.
Stephen 13:19
Right? And it they didn’t. I like to this they didn’t give details. is Anna part of it? Is she in on it? She was nervous. You could tell that she was weighed Yeah. And they didn’t tell you kind of had to interpret what was going on. Which I mean, I love it’s a little bit more thinking watching the movie. And what go back just one second, the earlier scene when they were girls. This started again started off as your typical monster in the house type thing where you hear the noises and the monsters appears on the bed. And even here in this scene, after the shooting, and the monster appears they didn’t focus on it and show it in close detail. It kept it hidden in a way. So it was even scarier, which is something again, you don’t see a lot of but I like when they do that.
Rhys 14:12
Oh yeah, they just they really hinted at it. And that’s actually a running theme for lucky a and we’ll talk about that more. A little bit further in the film. Anna shows up on her way there. This hideous creature that tormented Lucy shows up in the house with Lucy and Lucy try shooting it and her first shot goes wild and she doesn’t have any more ammunition but she of course brought a straight razor with her because who doesn’t
Stephen 14:52
go home invasion revenge plot have everything you can.
Rhys 14:56
Absolutely It is a very nice straight razor with like the pro handling Everything,
Stephen 15:00
didn’t focus on it a couple times
Rhys 15:02
they did. So she gets it out for self defense in this incredibly emaciated, scarred, female, naked female figure. It’s just in the house with her, all of a sudden out of nowhere, and they start fighting. And the creature who starts, like carving into her back with the razor. She eventually manages to get herself out of the closet or bathroom, she gets herself locked into. Yeah, right. And she thinks it might be safe. So she opens door and puts her hand out and a razor goes straight through the middle of her hand. And that is the state that Anna finds her in when she shows up at the house.
Stephen 15:44
And this the creature whoever portrayed this creature did amazing because like the one seen in the bathroom, wasn’t just walking or crawling around, like the legs flipped over backwards onto the top.
Rhys 15:58
Yeah, and it was like, weird, the contortion ism that that actress took to do those those movements, really plays into Lucky’s whole thing where it’s it’s not even almost recognizable as a human anymore.
Stephen 16:14
Right. And it was perfect. And I loved it. Because the effects. I don’t know if there were any computer graphic effects in the whole thing. Everything was physical and real. And it I think it made it even better because they pushed it as far as they could. Yeah,
Rhys 16:29
yeah. And what one of one of the notes that he mentions, in an interview about why what made this movie so difficult to make, besides the lack of funding that he could come across was that the actresses had to cry so much. They had to cry through the whole movie. That was that’s actually very physically taxing on a person. Yeah. So Anna shows up, and she is appalled at what she finds with the bodies lying all over the place, regardless of their age, or gender for that matter. And she finds Lucy in the closet and pulls her out and immediately pulls out a first aid kit that she has, and starts to clean
Stephen 17:16
up with a straight razor. Yes,
Rhys 17:19
right? Yes, you had the one with the razor and the one with the first aid kit. And then Anna starts to clean and stitch Lucy’s wounds on her back. And she was
Stephen 17:31
very Matter of fact about it. And she didn’t question she didn’t. Are you sure it was just this? You know, this is what I got to do. This is what happened, which I thought was interesting.
Rhys 17:43
Yes. Yes. And it plays into the whole theme of the season with a friend. She didn’t come in. She didn’t be raped her. She didn’t question her. Now, as time goes on, you find that she did kind of doubt what Lucy had done. She wondered if Lucy was just insane, which she obviously is.
Stephen 18:08
for good reason. Yes,
Rhys 18:10
exactly. So she starts to clean things up. She gets Lucy calm down. And then she starts dragging bodies out into the woods to bury them in a hole. Yeah, just taking care of business. Just your everyday, everyday actions you do for your friends.
Stephen 18:31
Up to this point in the movie, I’m thinking okay, this movie reminds me a bit of like Natural Born Killers. kind of had that same type of feel going on to it. And then I’m like, Okay, well, now it’s Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Rhys 18:43
Right? There is one really telling moments there. For me. Anna is calming Lucy down. And she’s like, caressing her, and she kisses her. Like a passionate kiss. Anna is obviously in love with Lucy. And Lucy has no idea what that is. And she kind of recoils and she’s like, what are you doing? And and it just blows it off. And I think thinking about what happens later in the movie, it makes that scene just a little sadder. Because it really seems like these are the these two are the only ones each other has. Yeah.
Stephen 19:29
And that comes up again in a moment when she makes a phone call to.
Rhys 19:34
Yeah, yeah. So she takes all these bodies. She’s She’s dumping them out. Lucy’s sleeping upstairs, and she goes in to the washroom where she had piled the bodies and the mother is not dead.
Stephen 19:51
She’s a little more worse.
Rhys 19:53
Yes, she’s just kind of lying there moaning and this is where you realize that Anna’s not 110 Sent behind Lucy on this because she’s going to try and get the mother out try and save her. Um and of course it doesn’t.
Stephen 20:11
At this point we don’t know everything that happened to Lucy they hinted at it with the little movie at the beginning in the cops, her running obviously, you know, half undressed and bloody eye and crap. So, but they’ve never gone into the detail. So you’re thinking, Okay, she was chained up or abused or something. But that’s about all we got at this point. And you mentioned Lucy sleeping. This girl doesn’t just sleep. She has like horrendous dreaming nightmares, and she thinks she’s awake. And so she can never escape the reality of what she went through either.
Rhys 20:45
Yeah, it’s with her forever. And I think especially the whole morning scene with the family getting up. It really causes the viewer to question whether Lucy was right. Because Yeah, thinking there are these kids who live in this house are not abused. There’s no sign of abuse there. They’re like highly functioning, highly motivated children. They’ve been supported by two loving parents. See, just
Stephen 21:13
like college and other stuff. Yeah, you
Rhys 21:17
really get the feeling that you know, Lucy just picked the wrong house to you know,
Stephen 21:22
blow up or she’s just
Rhys 21:24
crazy. Or she’s just crazy, which again, she is. But so in the long run. Lucy finds out that the mother is still alive. And Anna is trying to stop Lucy from finishing the deed. But she can’t because Lucy basically just overpowers her in her rage. grabs a hammer. And bludgeons the mother to death in the hallway.
Stephen 22:00
And not just one or two. Good hit. It’s like no,
Rhys 22:04
yeah, she she does a really good job of it. And at this point, Lucy is attacked in the hallway by the ghostly figure that has been haunting her. And what we find is through a series of flashbacks, as Lucy was escaping from the place that she was being held in, she looks in another room and finds an emaciated woman covered with scars. But Lucy is just a little girl, and she’s trying to escape and so she leaves her behind.
Stephen 22:45
So this is the first we see that it was way worse than we may have thought that I mean, they were feeding her she choked. They hit her she was chained to a chair. And there’s more than one.
Rhys 22:57
Yes, yes, there’s a second person there. And this this creature that’s been haunting her forever is basically her guilt. Leaving this woman behind.
Stephen 23:06
I have the exact same thing written down. I was like, Oh my gosh, it’s a manifestation of her guilt. It’s not Yes, she is. She is crazy. But they drove her to be crazy. And she still feels guilty. That’s the last bit of her humanity almost.
Rhys 23:20
Right. And it attacks her in the hallway. Well, it shows up and there’s this touching moment where like, she’s gonna embrace this, this creature, and you’re like, Oh, she’s coming to grips with, you know, she’s gonna grow as a character, but the creature won’t let her and it attacks her. And this is the first point in time where you’re 100% guaranteed that the creature is entirely in Lucy’s mind because you see Anna sitting there, and Anna sees none of it. She just sees Lucy starts to self harm herself, to start speeding her head against the wall. And from Lucy’s perspective, it’s the entity itself it’s grabbed her by the hair and it’s smashing your head against the wall. From Anna’s perspective Lucy is just beating her head against the wall until it starts to get bloody
Stephen 24:08
well edit we got a little interruption there. So you were talking about so finally from Anna’s perspective, we see that there’s nothing there.
Rhys 24:14
Yeah. And right about this time, the thing has been beat up several times. And a is trying to get control of Lucy Lucy ends up with the razor again. And she realizes at this point in time, that this is something that’s going to haunt her forever. Prevention’s did nothing to help get rid of the beast. She actually yells at the thing that she’s killed them. Why is it still bothering her? But at this point in time, she realizes she has no hope this is going to be with her forever. So she slices her own throat with the shirt with a straight razor and dies.
Stephen 24:59
Yeah And I’m like, Well, wait a second. This was like our main character gone. And like it’s a movie almost over. No, it’s only halfway.
Rhys 25:09
That is the beauty of good horror is that you never know what’s going to happen.
Stephen 25:14
It definitely was a twist. I did not expect.
Rhys 25:18
Yeah, absolutely. Because you know, it’s a friend movie, you’ve got your it’s a buddy movie, you get your friends, but one of your friends dies, 45 minutes into the movie, you’ve still got 45 minutes to go. You know, what are you going to do there? And so that’s what I found myself wondering, maybe, maybe Anna was now going to be haunted by the creature that was haunting. Lucy and I was, I was trying to shoehorn this into something that I would recognize as an American, modern horror fan, right? It wasn’t having it. So
Stephen 25:55
and wait real quick, there’s speaking of one of the things that happens in a lot of horror movies, and a lot of people like this, they become the big blockbuster ones. It’s the jump scares, where you’re like, Ah, you know, Freddy jumps out from behind the wall. And, you know, the big knife comes at you when you weren’t expected. You do have this in here, when the creature jumps on the bed at the beginning. When Lucy just shoots with the gun, it’s like, well, wait a second. So they are jumpscares in a different way. But it is so not what makes the movie so horrific at all. It’s tame, in fact,
Rhys 26:28
write it, it’s the attention to detail that loggia puts, I mean, he does not. There’s a lot of times where you’re watching a horror movie where they’ll just cut away, and you’ll hear screams, and they allow the viewer to feel the image in themselves. luggie does not do that in this movie, he embraces it fully. And force feeds it to you, like you’re strapped to a chair, and you don’t want to have anymore. Right? So Anna then spends the rest of the night in the house, which struck me is a little strange. But you know, I guess it’s been kind of an exhausting day for her. So
Stephen 27:14
yeah. And I do get the feeling that they’re kind of wanders anyway.
Rhys 27:21
Yeah. And, you know, that’s not uncommon, you have these state homes and kids fall through the cracks, and especially kids who are just as disturbed as, as, like Lucy was, you know, she was never going to find a stable household to grow up in anathan calls her mother, which I thought was a really interesting call. Because she was in a state home to start with, which means her mother must have voluntarily put her there, or she was taken from her, you know, by the state. And the fact that Anna has tracked her down, and like communicates with her apparently on a regular basis, because Anna’s mom says something about, are you with Lucy, that girl’s always getting you into trouble. So like, she knows the relationship between the two of them.
Stephen 28:20
See, I took it that they were now past that stage, they were on their own, because they must have been about 20 because the movie started, they were what seven or something. And now it’s 15 years later. So they they left the state home paid together. But like, and I lost all contact. So Lucy became her family. As crazy as it was.
Rhys 28:42
Yeah. And I agree. And that’s why the call to the mom was was interesting. It was kind of poignant to just because she was reaching out like one last time for some swint sense of normality. You know, like you’re calling your mom. Right?
Stephen 29:06
at&t and courage is that? Yeah, I got the feeling that Anna was like a runaway and was realizing Hey, you know what? life wasn’t so bad at home. My mother wasn’t as bad as I thought at the time I see differently now. It could have been worse.
Rhys 29:24
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Um, now
I’m gonna need you to help me out here. Because someone else ends up in the house and ends up shot in the head. Well,
Stephen 29:46
yes, so that’s in a little bit. So first, she’s on the phone with her mom. She hears noises in the vet. And right so she goes, investigate,
Rhys 29:56
right? I completely blocked this section out of my mind. Probably because it’s so horrific. Yeah.
Stephen 30:03
Now I’m going to point out when she’s on the phone with her mom, she doesn’t say bye and hang up. She just sets the phone down, which is very important, even though it seems like it’s not.
Rhys 30:13
That’s right, it does it actually plays into it. If any of you are familiar with the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, this is going to feel very similar to the end of that. Because Anna walks over to where she’s been hearing these noises and opens a cupboard and finds a secret door in the back. That leads to a hidden compartment down underneath the house,
Stephen 30:38
which looks scarily like what we saw when Anna was young.
Rhys 30:43
Yes, yes, yes. And she goes down there. And like, in an honorific position, there are framed pictures of people in looks to be like the last stages of their lives being tortured, dying, just looking upward. And there’s probably like five of them right, mounted on the wall.
Stephen 31:08
Yeah, at least. And I loved it, too, because they looked like they’ve been literally were from various periods of history.
Rhys 31:18
Yeah, yeah. And it does, it spans the gamut. She continues on, and she finds what is basically like the modern equivalent of an EU berliet. Which was at the time, back in the Middle Ages, it would either be a pit or a tower that was built with no doors, the only way in and out was through the ceiling. And you if you were put in there, you are stuck, because the only way you could get out was 20 feet up through a hole in the ceiling and someone would lower a rope or a ladder to get to you. Well, she finds one down in this underground complex that she finds herself in.
Stephen 32:04
Wait. Now you’re going Wait a second. What the hell is this doing under this normal family’s home? Maybe Lucy was crazy. But maybe that craziness had a reason? Maybe it was Yeah, as much as crazy.
Rhys 32:17
That whole thing just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you. Yeah, that’s the situation we’re in. So she lowers the ladder and climbs down which she takes nothing with her. If it was me, I’d at least have a screwdriver or something. I take the trusty straight razor. I mean, it apparently does a good job. But she climbs down and much to all of our horror, she finds a naked woman chained to the wall down there who has a large metal plate that covers her eyes and her nose that is somehow fastened to her head, so she can’t see. She’s a may ciated she scarred she’s really non-communicative. Um, she’s, she’s a mess. And Anna’s trying to help her. She’s trying to make contact with her. And as soon as the woman knows that she’s there. And she doesn’t seem to be a threat. The woman like embraces her like, thrilled to have human contact again,
Stephen 33:28
right? So it’s like, oh my god, how long has this woman been here?
Rhys 33:33
Yeah. I’m Anna manages to get the woman unfastened. Get her out of the EU berliet back upstairs, and she starts to clean her wounds. And when she starts to clean her wound, she puts the alcohol on the rag and the camera pans back and you can just see what a helpless hopeless job is. The woman has nothing but scars and sepia tones all over her body.
Stephen 33:59
And it’s one of those that you you can’t look away, but it’s like, why am I watching this? it? Just it. And again, he didn’t go through this scene quickly. He made sure you got the feel of it. It was you know the total weight of what was going on.
Rhys 34:20
Yeah, and to the point, it’s not even skin anymore. It’s just damaged leather. It was it was appalling. And then it gets worse. Because Anna decides she can’t just clean these one at a time. So she fills a tub with water. And after some thrashing, convinces the woman to get in the bathtub with water. We then find out how the metal plate is fastened to her head. It’s not like it’s bolted or anything like that. There are actual metal staples going through her skull across the top of her head with a metal band that’s holding the plate onto her face.
Stephen 34:56
Yeah, and you know, there could have been a million ways to do this. But he kept it simple enough that it was even more horrific that way you know if it had been some weird elaborate thing and it wasn’t it was just that and you cringe watching it and it’s not like okay, I know it’s gonna happen. Cut to a new scene. No, every staple coming out slowly and it Yes, definitely. I would classify this horrific more than horror at this point.
Rhys 35:27
Yeah. Yeah. And it goes through and removes the staples and takes the thing off. And there’s just a goo of like, jelly and nastiness. Where because any if you were anything for a very long period of time, much less something that doesn’t move and shift like, like metal, your body, your head. Yeah, your body will fit to it somehow. The woman is in horrible condition. She gets her out of the tub, right? Yeah. Are they the kitchen? Yeah. Because the woman then grabs a knife and start slicing into her own arm. Right? Right. She is shaving off pieces of her own skin. And once you hear the explanation of it, this is to me reminiscent of Hellraiser to Yeah, there’s the guy in the insane asylum, who’s convinced this there’s bugs all over him and he’s trying to the guy gives him a razor and he just starts hacking on his arm. If you remember that scene, right? So this woman’s trying to cut her arm and is trying to get the knife away from her the woman knocks her down it looks like and is in trouble and suddenly the woman’s head explodes because someone has shot her from behind
Stephen 36:56
right and the first part of that you realize okay, this is basically what Lucy went through. And this woman is now free and she pretty much goes crazy kind of like Lucy did so that’s why we’ve said a couple times there’s a reason for Lucy being crazy it’s a kind of you know, whatever they’ve done has just there’s nothing left it’s in there and this will come up here in a minute but there’s that point they hit this point where they’re crazy but that’s not the what is there that’s not the whole reason for this is not to drive people crazy right? Go ahead
Rhys 37:36
yeah and it all you know it all gets explained to you here in like the next two minutes because there’s a whole paramilitary squad there who comes in they’re all dressed in all black they’re armed they grab Anna and she makes the assumption as I would in her position now as a viewer of a horror movie I did not but she makes the assumption that they’re like the authorities right they’re like the police it’s a SWAT team or something somebody has come along right turns out they came along because she left the phone off the hook Yeah, she was talking to her mom she just set the phone down and I would assume in any kind of organization like this there’s like some sort of call and procedure to make sure everything’s fine you know that’s a that’s a safe bet and the family did not call in and so these guys were sent out and they take her down to the not to the EU berliet section just down to the outer spot with the nice pictures. Um, they handcuffed to a chair and they set up a table to write there’s like a little table Yeah, and this old lady comes in and I don’t know about you but like the first time I saw this I’m like Who the hell is this now I know is going on we’ve
Stephen 39:01
now hit the second twist of the movie. It’s not just one it’s two but you see how everything was leading up to this is the story
Rhys 39:10
Yeah. And the woman it’s funny in the cast she’s only listed as Mademoiselle which is the French equivalent of Mrs. She’s an older lady. She sits down and she lays the whole thing out for you and this is where this is where the themes from hostel come into play because hostels a movie about incredibly wealthy people who paid to torture people. And you know, that’s the that’s the whole movie in a nutshell. So this woman explains that they are a group of people who have studied people who have suffered, the martyrs of our time and at the point of their suffering at some point in time, they reach illumination where they are seeing what beyond death, they’re touching the Godhead
Stephen 40:02
transcending our existence. Yes, dying,
Rhys 40:06
right. And that’s what all those pictures are, these are all people, and they’re all looking up. Because according to this group, they have transcended humanity. They are, they are now one with the universal divine, and they are wise beyond their years. And this organization, which, surprise, surprise is full of the world’s most wealthy people have decided that they’re going to make this happen in an effort to gain the secrets of the outside world by kidnapping people and turning them into martyrs.
Stephen 40:48
torturing them to the point where they transcend. Yes. Okay, right here, I literally had to pause the movie because I was trying to catch up seriously, it was a revenge horror movie, it was, you know, just several other things throughout the time. And now we get this. And I’m like, why? Let me try and understand this, because that was such a deep thing to think about, you know, from their perspective, they’re doing good. They’re, they’re sacrificing a few individuals to gain the Uber knowledge, knowledge that is beyond our, our can, you know, the God’s knowledge? And you can, I mean, in a very warped way, you’re like, well, I understand that. And it’s like, crazy.
Rhys 41:38
And you hate yourself for it. Like, I get it, oh my gosh, right. How horrible am I?
Stephen 41:49
Which I think is probably what the director wanted to bring out. I know. Sure, any girl
Rhys 41:56
did amazing. Um, they explain that through suffering, they found they tried it with children, they find that it works best with young women. You torture them for a while. Eventually, they go mad, they start to see things, they start to see ghosts. And then comes the point of Transfiguration where they’re transformed beyond just humanity. And and then the woman just kind of basically, I mean, she doesn’t say it, but she kind of gets up from her chair. And she’s like, well, Sucks to be you now. And then she leaves. And you’re like, oh, and it’s at this point that Anna gets put in the Uber yet. If this was an American film, that could have been the end of it. Exactly. Yep. But no, well, you’re
Stephen 42:49
thinking about it. Now. You’re right. Because the rest of this feels so French feels like every French movie I’ve ever seen. Oh, yeah, at the end, you know?
Rhys 42:59
Absolutely. 110% you will find that French French horror movies. They don’t shy away from nudity. They don’t shy away. I mean, they will show you everything. They they’re not afraid to do any of that. And there’s always this. It’s hard to put your finger on it. But there’s always this kind of running undercurrent of like, yeah, I hate to sound stereotypical, but like sexiness that ran through all their stuff, no matter what horrible things are happening on screen.
Stephen 43:33
It’s kind of like the Renaissance never ended. Yeah,
Rhys 43:37
yeah, it’s it’s really strange. Um, so it’s at this point in time when you start especially if you’ve watched a lot of horror movies, you look and there’s pacing to horror movies. And when you get to the final 20 minutes, that’s when stuff really kicks in. And it’ll kick in for a good 15 minutes or so. And then the last five minutes is like the resolution the venue, right? So I looked down at the clock The first time I saw this, and I’m like, Oh my god, there’s 20 minutes to go. We’re doing this. We’re gonna we’re going to watch this. This is like the the driving thrusts. This is the driving thrust of the movie.
Stephen 44:18
Yeah. And it wasn’t action. All the action was done. Yeah. It really just had they just set a camera down and walked away and let it run is really what it comes out like
Rhys 44:29
yeah, it is it is painful watch. So they take her down into the Oval yet and proceed to torture her for extended period of time. And the part that I love about it is I love about it. That’s what I appreciate about it is that they don’t understand artistically. Yes. They don’t have crazy torture devices. There’s no there’s no you know, Iron Maiden or rack or anything like that. There’s just a guy who comes down Like every day and beats the crap out of her, and they leave her in the dark, chained up. Yep. And they never talked to her. Someone comes down and force feeds her like protein grool. And if she like balks at it, they slap her in the face. And one of the things that I found and you mentioned it with the ghost the guilts ghosts earlier, is he purposely frames it so that you can see Anna, but you almost never see her tormentors faces, right? Because they aren’t characters in this. They are just people doing the job. It’s kind of like automatons. Yeah, it’s kind of like the guy who gives Tony Stark his coffee at a Starbucks. They never focus on that guy’s face. You just see the uniform the guy hands in the coffee, he goes off. That’s the exact same thing that he looks lucky he does with the the tormentors here. He just doesn’t focus on them at all for the next 15 minutes, right. And the other thing that I found was really fascinating about this section. And it is, I don’t know about you, but it was a painful section to watch. And I just kept checking the time going, Oh, my gosh, how much longer are they going to do this. But one of the things that happens is she starts to hear voices. And the voice she hears is Lucy. And it really tied into me because Mademoiselle earlier says that they will torture them, then they start to see things monsters even. And I’m like, here it is. Lucy is Anna’s monster.
Stephen 46:37
Right? And also that’s the point where Lucy escaped so she never left this stage of the whole development the whole torture right at that point. And that’s was the rest of her life.
Rhys 46:50
Yep. One of the things they do to Anna while she’s down there, they cut all her hair off. And and that is, you know, just traditionally society that is a way of stripping away someone’s personality. She is no longer Anna, she is just this victim down here. Who is this is going to happen to her for who knows how long, right? This continues for a while until one day the feeding lady comes down and goes to feed her and she’s just kind of sitting there. And the woman who feeds her actually seemed sympathetic for a section. She’s she like touches her face for a minute. And then she goes upstairs.
Stephen 47:31
Now I questioned was that did you really feel sympathy? Or was that part of the whole torture process to give Anna that little bit of hope to take it away again later?
Rhys 47:41
I think it was actually sympathy. Because at that point in time, she’s like, she’s ready to move on to the next section. And right around now he start to see the faces of the tormentors.
Stephen 47:56
Yes. And they took over for the other family. Yes,
Rhys 47:59
they move right into the house. They’re making their breakfast and that kind of thing. The dad, the guy who’s been brutally beating her this whole time, goes downstairs, lifts her up off the floor and takes her into this room and puts her on this bizarre circular thing. And when I saw it, I’m like, What
Stephen 48:21
the hell is that? It’s like one of those gyroscope chairs.
Rhys 48:24
Yeah, yeah, she’s like, strapped in. He then proceeds to play her alive. Just peeling all the skin off of her body, which would be ridiculously painful. And
Stephen 48:39
again, the words it’s hard to say what I appreciated considering what was happening on screen, but they don’t show the actual process of it. They show he start and then afterward. And it’s almost more horrific because it suddenly clicks like, Oh my god, am I seeing what I’m seeing? Did they just do what I think they just did? Yeah,
Rhys 49:01
because you’re not really sure what he’s doing at the start. He like grabbed some tools. And it look kind of like pans over to Anna and she has this look of pain on her face. And then that’s it. And you’re like, oh, what was that? And then they come back. And there she is with no skin sitting in a wheelchair with like a sheet over her. And then they strap her up to this device that holds her upright and leave her there. They don’t really tell you how long she’s there.
Stephen 49:29
Yeah, the whole torture process they didn’t was it had to be a little while because this new couple moved in. Yeah, I mean it. It was difficult to tell the timeframe which again, Anna probably didn’t know how long she’d been there times. Yeah. And it gives it that nebulous. How long does it really take to transcend a being?
Rhys 49:50
Yeah, yeah, you really don’t you don’t have any idea. Then they cut to the family doing their morning stuff. The mom is making the protein mix to feed Anna apparently they still feed you after you’ve been skinned alive. And she walks downstairs and you hear her scream. And I thought that was very telling could because she comes up and you’re like, why she screamed, well, she she doesn’t come up, the guy goes running down to her. And she’s coming up. And she is saying that it’s happening. It’s happening right now. And apparently seeing it happen is something that is so drastic that it causes an actual visceral reaction in this woman who has seen horrible scene and done horrible things this whole time. But seeing Anna being transfigured into something beyond human,
Stephen 50:49
it’s a religious experience for Yes, yeah, it is.
Rhys 50:53
So the guy calls someone on the phone and says it’s happening, and cue the black limousines. Here comes a whole crowd of rich people showing up to come learn the great secret, and Mademoiselle is there.
Stephen 51:09
And then just I mean, they’re driving expensive cars they’ve got this is like a major event in their lives. It’s history for them.
Rhys 51:17
Yes. Mademoiselle goes down to Anna and leans in close and Anna whispers to her. And before she does that, I’m lucky he does this amazing, slow pan into Anna’s eye.
Stephen 51:33
Right? And this may be the only actual special effects with computers and stuff. But yeah, I’m not even sure if it was
Rhys 51:40
right. They say the eyes, the mirror of the soul. He zooms in so tight on the pupil so that all you can see is the reflection of the light. And then, like beyond his limbs in past that and there’s darkness and there’s this light in this strange kind of ethereal sounds and swirling things. And you’re like she has she has left humanity behind. Then they zoom back out and you see what she is she’s like in this gel container. And it’s really gross because she has no skin. Yeah. So Mademoiselle goes down and leans in closely and Anna whispers something to her. And she goes upstairs, and she’s getting ready to address all of these wealthy people. And this guy is telling them It has happened. Here’s what happened. She transcended. She’s been speaking. She stopped speaking you know, at some time, everything
Stephen 52:37
we’ve hoped for everything we’ve waited for which hinted it could have been generations.
Rhys 52:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so he goes up to talk to Mademoiselle, and she’s in the bathroom getting ready. So he’s talking to her through the door, and she’s taking off her fake lashes. She’s taking off her wave. I mean, she’s deconstructing herself. Yeah, in the bathroom. And they’re just talking back and forth. And he asks, you know, did you hear? And she’s like, yes. And he just as he turns to leave, she calls him back. And she asks him, if he knew. Let me see.
Stephen 53:24
I didn’t write down her exact words.
Rhys 53:27
She asks, oh, he asks, If what Anna said was clear. And she says yes. And then she asks him, can you imagine what comes after death? And he says, No. Then she reaches into her purse and pulls out a handgun. And she says, keep doubting, and she blows her own brains out. And that is the end of the movie. Done. Except just to make it a little sadder. The ending credits play with, like home video shots of Anna and Lucy playing his help. Happy little kids just twist the knife at the end a
Stephen 54:05
little bit more. Yeah. So first of all, when she was taking off her eyelashes, and I’m like, okay, she’s losing her humanity. She heard what lies beyond and she’s no longer really human. That’s a really good point. And she couldn’t handle it. Really? So do you think she killed herself because she couldn’t handle the truth for she knew it would be the end of their religion, and you can’t have religion without belief. And now they have no belief because they know.
Rhys 54:34
So I’ve thought about this a couple times. I thought, maybe, maybe that’s it. Maybe it’s the end of their empire. And she gets it. Maybe Anna told her that there’s this amazing thing, but you’re not going to get there. Or maybe Anna said there’s nothing there at all. You’ve been wasting your time this whole time, right?
Stephen 54:58
When she talked to her for like an hour. hour and a half. Yeah, the guy
Rhys 55:03
in the movie is so powerful and enigmatic and so horrible, all at the same time. It’s it’s just strange, and it almost makes me nervous to speak about it.
Stephen 55:19
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. You know, I mean, you gotta see it, but I could very well see someone saying, how could you watch that or taking a clip of anything we’ve said and twisting it based on you know, I can see that definitely being, you know, a thing. But yeah, but unfortunately, you know, if you and I think the French get this more than Americans, it’s art, it’s supposed to evoke some sort of response, you’re supposed to think about it. And, you know, and discussing, it helps you come to grips with what you’ve seen. It’s
Rhys 55:57
laggy does this amazing thing I saw a movie last night. I can’t even Oh, empty room is what it was called. It’s not great. I wouldn’t, you know, recommend that you rush out and watch it. But it’s a ghost story, a haunted house story, basically. But they’re using the movie as a vehicle to speak about how hard it is for parents dealing with autistic kids. But they do it in such a heavy ham handed manner. It kind of ruins the movie. And so lagi a was interviewed about this movie, and he’s like, unlike hostile, it’s not a movie that studies torture. It’s a movie that studies pain. And in this case, they take all the shocking stuff. And they managed to have a conversation with it, but he does it in such a masterful way. That the horrible things you see actually help with the conversation. Right? If you can get past what you’ve seen. You can have, you can have a pretty in depth conversation about it. And what you what he shows you on screen is not I mean, it’s over the top, but not so much so that you can’t stop and think, Wow, maybe what they’re doing is a good thing.
Stephen 57:18
Exactly. It’s the focus isn’t. This is a movie about torture. And that’s the horror. That’s really not it is not suitable levels. You know, here we have this religion that has gotten what they believe they’ve seen the face of God, you know, and, and obviously, there’s something horrible about that in some way. Because she kills herself. Yeah. So I mean, you could probably point to so many different little themes of horror throughout this whole thing.
Rhys 57:47
Yeah, it’s, it’s a horrid lasagna. It’s got all kinds of layers.
Stephen 57:53
Or lasagna. I think we need that as a T shirt.
Rhys 57:57
Yeah. Our first merge will make a T shirt that says horror lasagna on it. And listen to all the horror is on? That’s right. No, it’s it’s a very, very powerful film. He’s got so many different themes between, you know, the horrible things that happened individual sometimes for the sake of religion, to the fact that the poor and impoverished are simply tools for the wealthy to use. There’s so many societal things that he puts in there, and they’re not in there accidentally, you know, right, right. The movie was built with this in mind.
Stephen 58:32
Well, I like our friend Bob, he always loves the imagery, and yes, symbolism. And you could probably pull out every scene pieces of that in here a lot. And the French that’s another big French thing, too.
Rhys 58:44
It was really, you mentioned Bob, and it was really funny because that when she shoots the girl, it cuts away instantly to a scene of a flock of birds flying away. And that’s one of those big I can just hear Bob saying it’s the soul being fried. Like, Yep, absolutely. 100% right there.
Stephen 59:04
Yeah, it’s not the same thing. Yeah.
Rhys 59:07
So yeah, so I it’s a movie about friendship. You’ve got to friends in horrible situations. So it fits the theme for for the season. It also is incredibly powerful film, and it’s one that I thought it exemplifies the things that make a really, really good horror movie. Yes. Does it too well,
Stephen 59:36
it does. I mean, a lot of people will say, oh, how could you watch that? Because of all the torture and the horror on it, blah, blah, blah. But like you said, if you can get past that, to see the story and what the point is, this movie, whether you want you to get or not, will stick with you. I can see years from now remembering this movie, and talking about it, whereas there’s probably a dozen other movies I’ve seen Even more than once that I don’t remember that just because it’s that powerful. Again, we keep saying art, but it’s using the medium in a way to get a message out there and across. And it’s you mentioned, you know, he made like half the money back of what the movie cost. So he’s probably, you know, in circles considered a failed director, but I don’t know if he really failed. I think he just got something out there. That’s not understood by a lot of people.
Rhys 1:00:31
And that is the crux of this. If you look at reviews for this film, it is seriously split. were like, half the people hated it. And then half the people are like, this is brilliant.
Stephen 1:00:44
Yeah, say I’d probably never sit and watch this with my wife. She would hell.
Rhys 1:00:48
No, no, no.
Stephen 1:00:49
with you. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Rhys 1:00:52
I wouldn’t share the same my family. But it, you know, part of it’s because of the conversation that comes from it afterwards, too. Right. Right. Um, it doesn’t. I don’t want to say it paints religion in a bad light. Because it really doesn’t it paints I mean, what they’re after is something that mankind’s always been searching for answers for what happens after their methods are horrible. Yes. But
Stephen 1:01:25
arguably, how many girls through even several generations has been 100? Maybe let’s just guess 100? Okay, well, how many people died during the Crusades? Oh, yeah. You could argue that’s arguably way worse. Yeah. And this and, you know, they achieved their goal. So, you know, is the ends justify the means? When it’s something like this? How else are you going to get those means in some ways? I mean, again, you could probably go back and each time if you watched it more than once if you have that, but I can see, getting different themes, different points out of it every single time is Yeah, one of those types of things. Yeah, this
Rhys 1:02:08
is to, to and hopefully last time I watched this movie. It’s a great movie. I just never want to watch it again. Right?
Stephen 1:02:16
Yeah. And I probably wouldn’t recommend it, except to a very select few. And we mentioned Bob, Bob probably would enjoy it. Yeah, if he gets past all the horror, he doesn’t always like that. Yeah, imagery in it is pretty strong.
Rhys 1:02:29
Yeah, we wouldn’t be remiss if we did not mention that, once again, they decided that they were going to bring this to America and make an American version of this film, which they did in 2015. Lucky he said that he had, he was negotiating the rights the United States and Daniel Stam was going to direct it and Daniel Stam was the director of The Last Exorcism. I don’t know if you’ve seen that. And maybe it’s a pretty good, it’s a pretty good like found foot. It’s not found footage. It’s like a mockumentary, he also did vacancy. Or, well, it was written by Mark Smith who wrote vacancy, which is kind of like another hostel like a hotel run by psychos kind of deal.
Stephen 1:03:15
And then most of them,
Rhys 1:03:16
yeah, Stan ended up backing out. Because the budget for the movie was this just this kind of thing drives me nuts. And you know, if you want to talk video games, they do this crap all the time. The budget for the movie was a million dollars, which he says is like a really low budget and my last movie was million dollars. And like my agent has said that if I make another million dollar movie, I’ll plateau with that. And no one will ever hire me to do more expensive films. And so he backed out. But they went ahead and pushed ahead anyways and made an absolute crapper of a movie.
Stephen 1:03:58
Now I haven’t seen if anyone wants. Yeah, so if anyone wants to look it up, it’s a 2008 one, not the 2016.
Rhys 1:04:05
Yes, the 20 2016 has a 9% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which tells you how bad that is. And I can see why because one of the reasons Lucky’s film works so well is because it is not based in American cultural horror.
Stephen 1:04:25
Yeah, very much. And I haven’t seen the 2016 but I would guess the focus of it is on the torture and the the story and points and imagery. A lot of that probably gets missed. And I’m going to guess based on past movies that we’ve both seen the same type of thing.
Rhys 1:04:44
Oh, sure. It happens all the time. I mentioned hostel. The whole reason I recently went back to watch it wasn’t for this. It was because part three showed up on Netflix. And so I was like yeah, I’ll watch that and it was horrible
Stephen 1:04:59
in a bad way. Not so good.
Rhys 1:05:01
Right? So then I went back and watch the first one and I found the second one. So I got to watch that too. The first two are good. The third one’s just miserable. It’s like your typical glossy, Americanized version of it. And it’s like, No, no, and Eli Roth. I should look that up. You don’t happen to know his nationality off the top of your head, Eli Roth, no, I’m bidding. He’s American, is an American film director. And he directed the first two. So I don’t know what the difference was. Between the first two and that last one that was just directed by who knows who but it was just garbage. And I’m betting like, the remake of martyrs is pretty much the same thing. Yeah, yeah. I haven’t watched it. So the there’s the sliver of of benefit of doubt. But But yeah, one of those things, if you take a movie that I love, and remake it, there’s a really good chance I’m not even going to watch it.
Stephen 1:05:59
Right? Yeah. Keep with what you’re like. I think I don’t know if we mentioned but we should. If anyone really does go seek this out. It is subtitled. Because I didn’t see an English dubbed version anywhere. Like I said, the only version was on iTunes. So you’ll get it subtitled. If you don’t like subtitles, it’ll make it all the worse for you.
Rhys 1:06:21
Yeah, and with the low budget, you’re probably not going to find one that has some dubbing that goes over it because that’s an additional cost. And as Steve pointed out, it really didn’t make that much money. when it launched
Stephen 1:06:34
justify it. I like, Oh, go ahead.
Rhys 1:06:38
luggie actually only made four movies. I mean, apparently he’s making of a fifth now. But he made St. Anj which wasn’t a giant blockbuster. It was a good movie. He made martyrs. He made a movie called The tall man, and one called ghost land. Which, I don’t know if I’ve seen either of those. But yeah, he’s not like some prolific kind of director who’s got tons and tons of stuff out there.
Stephen 1:07:07
I was gonna make a comment. I liked the music. It was done by seppuku paradigm. Oh, that was extremely I have no idea who that is. I just love the name for a movie like this.
Rhys 1:07:21
It’s really funny because music is such a big deal. What movie are we doing next?
Stephen 1:07:27
What a movie that music is an even bigger deal the battery.
Rhys 1:07:32
That’s right. When I saw that movie, I liked the music so much. I found out who did it and I went out and bought the album. I was wanting
Stephen 1:07:39
to look that up to so that there’s our preview for the next episode. We’re doing the battery.
Rhys 1:07:44
Yes, yes. A very another small budget film. But very, what they do with their money is amazing how well they managed to put together as much
Stephen 1:07:57
horror and grossness as in this one. You don’t get it as much in that one. There’s very little.
Rhys 1:08:04
No, there there is very little Steve, watch it. I did watch it. Yeah, it’s a it’s it’s much more almost on the edge of a horror comedy. Yeah.
Stephen 1:08:15
And it was good. I enjoyed it. So we’ll talk about that for the next episode. If you didn’t, if martyr’s is not your cup of tea, that’s fine. We’ve got something completely different for you next time. Very, almost like you say comedic, fun zombie movie. Well, not fun, but it is enjoyable. And
Rhys 1:08:35
you know, martyrs is usually well liked among hardcore horror enthusiasts. So if it’s not your cup of tea, you can just listen to this podcast and be able to talk like you side
Stephen 1:08:49
note version.
Rhys 1:08:50
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.
Stephen 1:08:53
All right. Well, hey, that was a really good discussion. I appreciate the movie for all the horrible dreams it’s probably going to give me
Rhys 1:09:00
Yeah, enjoy because there’s probably about five of them on that list that are like that, that say, love this movie. Don’t want to watch it again.
Stephen 1:09:10
And we mix it up that way. That’s, you know, part of the goal. Absolutely. Alright man. Appreciate it.
Rhys 1:09:17
Yeah, I enjoyed it. And we’ll see. When we do the battery.
