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If you like a little history with your horror, this is the film for you. The Croatian – Serbian conflict from the 90’s may not seem that personal to us, but to at least one of the characters in this film, it certainly is personal. Watch a little horror? Check. Learn some history? Check. It’s like a two-fer.

This is another horror movie that is hard to pin down to genre. And it depends on how you view the movie itself. At the least, there are supernatural elements to it and overall, the movie is fantastically well done. The extended shots without a cut are fantastic and the sound work is superb – make sure to watch with a good sound system.


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[00:01:00] So season two, episode eight, the mouse, which language you’re saying to them. Okay. Apparently

[00:01:07] Rhys: not. That’s really crazy. Yeah. I don’t know about you, but this is a difficult film to watch. Yes. It’s a little painful it’s and you can come at it from three different angles.

And we’ll talk about all three now. Yeah. It’s a Spanish film, which blows me away because it’s a Spanish film from 2018 written by a Spanish writer and directed by the same guy. His name is yang Herrero he’s 42 year-olds director from the province of us Steris on the Northern coast of Spain.

He was a law student, but gave it up to study film making in Madrid. Wow. He’s directed four movies. Mouse is the only full length film on the entire.

[00:01:52] Stephen: Okay. So it is the first big one. Yep. Wow. Interesting choice.

[00:01:57] Rhys: And yeah out of the four films he’s been [00:02:00] nominated for 18 awards and one six of them.

[00:02:02] Stephen: Wow. So a choice. Yeah, it is career.

[00:02:08] Rhys: Two of them were for mouse. But again, this is the whole weird international world of movies. You have this Spanish writer and director who wrote a movie called the mouse, which is in this case Germanic for a mouse. And it takes place in Bosnia, Herzegovina.

And is about the CRO at Serb war from the 1990s. Yes. And it’s an English.

[00:02:37] Stephen: Yes. That threw me off. So it doesn’t start though. The very beginning I’m like, okay, some titles I’m good with that, but

[00:02:46] Rhys: it’s really funny because all the stuff I looked up for this I don’t actually know what they speak.

I’m guessing it’s Serbian.

[00:02:53] Stephen: Yeah.

[00:02:55] Rhys: In Bosnia Herzegovina. So you have the main character Alex who [00:03:00] speaks German cause he’s from Germany. And his girlfriend Selma who’s from Bosnia. Herzegovina does not speak German. She speaks Serbian, which he does not, but they both speak English. So they speak English when they’re together so they can understand each other.


[00:03:20] Stephen: Yeah. In the beginning felt I wasn’t sure of the movie. I didn’t look up information. I just wanted to watch it. And the very beginning with the clothes I prefer in the woods, it’s I thought, oh, this is like a medieval thing or something, it just gave that whole impression, which he does throughout the whole movie.

Very well. We’ll talk about that more too.

[00:03:42] Rhys: The film has a little tiny cast. There’s only six actually spoken parts in the entire. And the vast majority of the film only focuses on four of them. Because one of them, one of the speaking parts is in a flashback. Yeah. And the other other cast part that’s listed in the cast is the mouse, [00:04:00] which is like the monster Beastie of the thing.

She never speaks throughout the movie. So

[00:04:07] Stephen: that’s going to be interesting at that part too. I made a note, I said, okay, So how do I classify this? And I changed it as I kept watching. It’s definitely psychological, but not like silence of the lambs. You get PTSD in there. And is it psychological or is it supernatural when things start happening?

It was definitely a weird one, but if you like martyrs, you’ll probably like, this is, it’s got some similar themes, in it, but it’s, we would not have enjoyed when we were kids. No,

[00:04:41] Rhys: not at all. And it’s the movie Herero really likes to luxuriate on really long shots. Yeah. So there are a lot of times where, like this screen will just go black and you’ll be like, did something just happened to my, whatever you’re watching it on because the screen’s black for [00:05:00] probably 45 seconds before anything happens.

He definitely. Had something in mind when he went into this movie and he took his time and did it exactly how he had envisioned.

[00:05:12] Stephen: He probably should have back in the eighties, changed careers and looked into doing YouTube videos. And he would have been perfect for Bo mano, and he does the setting.

We’re basically one location. We’re in a forest, that’s it? We do go into a place that’s in the forest for a little bit, but it’s still within the forest. There’s that’s it, that’s the location.

[00:05:37] Rhys: There is one flashback scene that takes place at a park in Germany.

[00:05:42] Stephen: Other than that, I don’t know if I even really count that too much.

It’s a minute.

[00:05:47] Rhys: Yeah. The actors who are in this come from all over the place.

[00:05:53] Stephen: Yeah, Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Germany,

[00:05:57] Rhys: August Whitten’s wits gin, [00:06:00] Stein plays Alex, and he’s the boyfriend he’s done 40 movies and they’re almost all German films. He was in angels and demons that Tom Hanks CQL to

[00:06:11] Stephen: the other really big one, which is actually funny because in the book series, that’s the first book.

Oh, is it? Yeah. DaVinci code angels. Demons was Dan Brown’s first book with that character. And then DaVinci code was actually the second book.

[00:06:26] Rhys: He was also in the crown, the series about the Royal family. And he was in, I never knew they did this, but of course, why would I, it was in Germany.

They did a television series based on DAS boots, which is the famous 1970s Germanic submarine movie. So he was in that as well.

[00:06:45] Stephen: It wasn’t anything like Hogan’s heroes or anything, was it?

[00:06:48] Rhys: I hope not. It is. They really missed a miss the theme and the flavor. They’re all Matesich plays Selma.

His [00:07:00] girlfriend she’s been in 20 movies overall. You won’t know any of

[00:07:02] Stephen: them. And she looked like it’s almost like she looks familiar, but I like, nah, I don’t know her from her. Yeah. But they’re all

[00:07:09] Rhys: Bostonian Yugoslavian films. Alexander Sexton was been in 44 movies. You would know him. I think he’s the guy who played in the movie.

Diana Fernandez Perez only has three movies on her CV and she plays the girl at the end, in the flashback. Okay. A little tiny thing. Santan Mileva Milovich has been in 12 movies, including a Yugoslavian one and in Bosnia and Herzegovina television show. And he played ah,

[00:07:47] Stephen: Mila. Yeah. Milos.

[00:07:50] Rhys: Yes. Okay. And Ella Jaz has been in nine other things. All of them are television shows. One of those shows is called club [00:08:00] megatronics, which I thought was a catchy name for a TV show. Mouse is the only full length feature film on the list and she plays the amount. This movie has three basic ways.

You can look at it and I’m sure there’s way more than that, but as I was watching it you can look at this movie as an actual political statements on what happened to the Bosniaks during the Croatian serene war. Yes. And the first time I saw it, I completely missed that. The second time I saw it, when it gets to the end and she’s I was, as a child, I was told to cry and someone would come to help come from my help.

And I was like you could say that the Bosniaks did that during the genocide. And the rest of the world did nothing and lots and lots of. You could look at it as political statement. You could look at it as a movie where you have this guy, who’s just gaslighting his girlfriend through the entire thing.

And she is right the entire [00:09:00] time. And what a complete loser this guy is.

[00:09:03] Stephen: I’ve got some comments about him at the end, but

[00:09:08] Rhys: then the third one is you can watch this and as it’s going, you can be like, she’s definitely overreacting to stuff. And this probably did not have to happen the way it did, because she was freaking out about the fact that she’s, Bosniak in Bosnia and Herzegovina talking to two Serbs because they start out.

Pretty straight up guys. You know what I mean?

[00:09:39] Stephen: Yeah. But

[00:09:41] Rhys: whether they’re completely shady down to the court or

[00:09:46] Stephen: we’re going to really try and capture someone, kidnapped them, you probably wouldn’t want to come on too strong at the very beginning know, it’s easier to get them. I saw, I was thinking that too, which way [00:10:00] is it?

Because the way he films, things you don’t know at times is this what’s really happening or is this what’s in, and that is, it’s one of those very classic movie tropes in the TV shows and stuff. Somebody take something that’s going to mess with them psychologically. So you wonder the whole time, it’s that little

[00:10:18] Rhys: One of the things we need to do just to establish for younger listeners out there. In the end of the eighties started the nineties, the Soviet union fell Yugoslavia was a Soviet union state. And it was coming apart as well. And when it did, you had this region that had Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia and Montenegro, and they just shattered into basically six different places.

And the problem was that the Croatians on the west, on the east side wanted independence and the Serbians who are on the opposite end, wanted to be [00:11:00] back with Yugoslavia. And so this war broke out and it took place in Boston. And Hertz and convenient cause it’s in between the two. And so this war lasted through a lot of the nineties and there were UN peacekeepers sent in, but I don’t know that any nation really took a stand to support one side or the other.


[00:11:23] Stephen: They weren’t important enough in the world view, not, that’s just how everybody viewed. Yeah.

[00:11:28] Rhys: There’s no plutonium under the ground. There’s no oil under the ground there. We’ll just let them turn their wheels and figure it out. Especially like in our area, you have you still have strongly Serbian pockets of people and Croatian pockets of people, and they have serious opinions on this war.

But I think we can all agree that people who lost the most with the Bosniaks who are Muslim and slow beyond Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian ruler at the time just decided he was going to [00:12:00] kill them all. And so he would have them round it up and just execute right. And housing and put them in a mass grave.

[00:12:10] Stephen: Okay. Whatever, from the viewpoint, this story, if you take it from that and it’s, yes. It’s definitely one of those history lessons that you probably learned more watching than you did in history class.

[00:12:21] Rhys: Absolutely. Yes. And

[00:12:22] Stephen: oh, go ahead. And just going to say the worst part for us is that’s when we were just getting out of school.

So we had gone through all those years with learning geography, and then they just changed it all.

[00:12:34] Rhys: He had Yugoslavia, the Soviet union. Now you had a million Baltic states and

[00:12:40] Stephen: right. Yeah. Honestly through the years, how many times has that happened? Where somebody mentioned the country, you’re like, where the hell is that I’ve never heard of that country?

It’s new, you know what I mean?

[00:12:50] Rhys: So in this movie we start out with Selma and she is saying a prayer and it’s Ja [00:13:00] Hafizi the protector. And in the Muslim tradition, alpha fees is one of the names of Allah. And the Yamaha Fitsu is a prayer that you recite. And those who recite yah, feet to 16 times daily will be kept safe from disasters.

It really w when you look at it, there’s there’s a lot of names of Allah and they all have different prayers that you say, depending on the situation that you find yourself in, it reminded me a lot of Catholicism and like the Sates, right? You have a patron Saint for this and a patron Saint for that.

She is saying this prayer, which. Mark’s her as Muslim. And especially if you’re not familiar with this section of the world, viewers might be shocked to see she’s got blonde hair and blue eyes because she’s not from the middle east she’s from Bosnia Herzegovina, and that’s where they happen to be.

They are in Bosnia headed to catch a flight to Sarajevo, to fly out, to [00:14:00] return to Germany where her boyfriend Alex is from. And she apparently is a student there as well. They have their dog, Steve,

[00:14:10] Stephen: Sorry. Yeah. I think you’re getting to this. The very first thing he does is just let the dog go in the woods.

Just let them go and okay, you’re an idiot, but whatever. But you knew that what was gonna happen at that point?

[00:14:25] Rhys: He’s German. She’s nervous because she’s back in Bosnia. And there are three languages spoken in the first six minutes of this film because he speaks in German a bit. She’s speaking in a I’m assuming Serbian.

And then they’re both speaking to each other in English. She doesn’t want to go into the forest. She says it’s dangerous. Their minds out there, Alex in minds were, landmines were frequently used in this conflict in the nineties. He says there isn’t because he’s got a map and look right here on the map.

It shows you right where all of the mines are,

[00:14:59] Stephen: [00:15:00] Told me, yeah, you are an idiot. I don’t live in that area. I’ve not lived through a war zone, but come on, from everything, you’ve heard that there’s still picking up mines of Vietnam from visual.

[00:15:12] Rhys: Yes. And this was much, much more recently. We should point out that the whole reason they’re having this conversation is because he was driving their vehicle and got it.

Stuck, varied up to the axle and he is an idiot. Yeah. Yeah. So they’re stuck. She doesn’t want to go into the forest because it’s dangerous and there’s mines out there. He’s dismissive of her concerns. And he points out to her how attached she is to her homilies Elysia, which is this necklace that she has.

And the little John is it’s the golden Lily of the Bosniaks, who are the Bosnian Muslims. So if you knew enough between the prayer and her necklace the director tells you exactly everything you need to know about her. They are in Bosnia, [00:16:00] she is Bosnia and she is a Bosniak meaning. She’s a Bosnian Muslim.

They were horribly persecuted during the war. And you had this. They call him Europe is like a, Hey Europe. Yeah, you have this German guy. Who’s just it’s not a big deal,

[00:16:15] Stephen: Which is part of that political statement, because what was the last time Germany was involved in land wars, maybe when they were on horses and stuff

[00:16:23] Rhys: they don’t like to talk about the last time Germany was

[00:16:26] Stephen: involved in land wars.

That’s true. Okay. You’re right. But that’s, that’s what I’m saying. Yeah. It’s really like us, I’ve not had to worry about walking down the street and getting bombed, we, we have not had that issue and she has he hasn’t and he’s treating it very flippantly. Yes. I like definitely what you said about that with the beginning.

Cause the right. Did a fantastic job of setting everything up and giving you all the information, without some big stupid info dump or awkward speech or anything like that, you had the watch and figure it out. It was very good. Very masterful. Yeah.

[00:16:59] Rhys: Yeah. [00:17:00] The amount of information he gets across, just so efficiently done.

And as soon as they do get out of the vehicle, there’s two things that show that, that struck me after I was watching it for my second or third time. One, the actress who plays Selma is very beautiful. Yes. As is the forest they’re standing. Yes. Both of them are very beautiful. They’re very disarming.

She doesn’t, she seems more frightened than threatening. And the forest just seems quiet and prime evil. It’s just there.

[00:17:38] Stephen: It isn’t that when that national geographic, I think very famous photo of that one girl, Afghanistan, maybe bright blue eyes. I just saw a news article about her recently. She’s now 40 50 or something like that.

It was that same thing. She’s a very beautiful girl, but they had guns and stuff, it’s not what we’re used to, our [00:18:00] world.

[00:18:00] Rhys: Yes. He refers to her as mouse, which is is spelled M a U S a, but it’s German for mouse, the small little timid rodent. And he tells her she’ll be safe with him.

Yeah. Not so much. So they’re going to walk off to the nearest town. They were back in Bosnia for a funeral. And it’s really funny because the way he sets it up, it sounds like they were back in Bosnia for a funeral. For her grandmother. You come to find out her grandmother’s not deceased. She came back for a funeral at the behest of her grandmother.

And we’ll find out who the funeral for in a bit they’re walking along. He points out that he wants to know more about her. What happened to her in Bosnia, the forest, her necklace. So this kind of seems like a big trip for them to take for him, not knowing a whole lot about her, and she contemplates telling him and then we hear that, Hey, maybe [00:19:00] it’s a Spanish thing. I didn’t even think of that until now. Cause Herrera’s from Spain. But. Insect tile clicking that you get in Guillermo Del Toro films a lot, whenever there’s something supernatural about to happen, it sounds like cicadas and there’s a mysterious figure in the distance.

Yes. And this guy uses depth of field so

[00:19:21] Stephen: well, and the focus where he focuses and how long the camera shot is. Yeah. It’s really good. Yeah. So you can

[00:19:29] Rhys: see her perfectly crystal clear, you can see the forest, it gets fuzzier as it goes back. And then you see what looks to be a thin human figure, all blurred out in the background.

She says, someone’s out there. And he says, he’s going to check it out. And he doesn’t see anything. And she says something about fog and he doesn’t see any fog. And she refers to what she sees as an it, she doesn’t say he was over there or she was over there. She says, It was over there. It’s not there.[00:20:00]

And then they see this Jeep, there’s just a Jeep out there in the middle of the woods. It appears to be abandoned. Not like it’s been sitting there forever, but there’s nobody nearby. And he just pulls a bag out of the front seat and starts going through it. He’s what are you doing? And he’s I’m getting us help.

And he finds a radio and starts calling for help.

[00:20:21] Stephen: My thinking was because in a minute, we’re going to get to another section here. But if you’ve got people, a Jeep and people missing, not around it, you got to wonder what happened to them? Where are they? Where are they?

[00:20:36] Rhys: Especially when the first two things you pull out of the bag that you pulled out, the front seat, or a long length of rope and a very nice looking knife, right?

He starts calling for help. He’s hearing voices on the other end of the radio that doesn’t make any sense to him. So he holds the radio out for Selma and he’s talk to them and she just like leaves. She turns and she’s put it away and [00:21:00] she takes off.

[00:21:01] Stephen: No, I didn’t. I was wondering if she heard something that spooked her that we didn’t know for sure.

But I was thinking this was like the triangle where they were hearing themselves from another time, which it really wasn’t because it wasn’t that type of movie, but he does make a phone call later. I was like, oh, but I don’t think that’s what it was, but that was, it almost threw me off cause I was trying to get too much out of that.

But this scene where she walks off was fantastic too. Yeah.

[00:21:30] Rhys: Cause again, the depth of field comes into play.

[00:21:36] Stephen: Really flows. They focus a lot on the guy, the boyfriend close up throughout the movie, whereas her, they get back a lot and get around that close view in that worldview analogy thing.


[00:21:50] Rhys: The other thing that I thought was that I was thinking when I heard the radio part, they’re really good about subtitling when they’re speaking in foreign languages [00:22:00] and they did not subtitle anything on the radio that was coming through and it, her instant reaction she’s nervous to start with and she’s paying attention to what he’s pulling out of the bag.

That’s frightening enough. But I wondered if there was like something in their accent or the way they were speaking that she’s these guys aren’t even Bosnian they’re service. And maybe that’s what

[00:22:21] Stephen: set her off. I also wondered if maybe she was having a flashback right there, a war flashback.

And what she heard was something she heard during the whole conflict. She wasn’t actually hearing what was on there. Oh,

[00:22:34] Rhys: that’s a good point. It might’ve, yeah, there might’ve not been anything, it might’ve all been in her head. We find out she’s in her head a lot, a whole lot.

[00:22:43] Stephen: The arguably with the ending, the whole movie might’ve been in her head.

[00:22:48] Rhys: Could’ve been, it. Could’ve been Alex finds her and apologizes for making her uncomfortable. And she says the necklace came from her father. And it’s your guardian angel and Alex’s leg. Oh, I’m your guardian [00:23:00] angel now? The dog starts barking and Alex goes after it leaving Selma alone, then you get the insect noise.

And a fog starts to roll in this time. We actually see the fog. It’s a really long scene and it does a great job building up tension. And there’s this blurred figure behind her as she heads off into the fog. And the insect clicking is following her along. So that supernatural element is coming along with her.

The fog goes away and suddenly she finds herself standing in front of Milos and Luke who instantly accused her of stealing a bag. That’s their bag. And then they call her sexy, which, both of them are fairly demeaning. They tell her it’s dangerous out there cause there’s mines. And they assume that she can’t understand where she’s, they’re saying.

Cause she doesn’t answer them. She’s not speaking for fear. They’ll hear her voice and figure out that she’s Bosniak. So she turns to leave and they tell her to stop. [00:24:00] She calls her Alex and there’s this exploding sound and she’s on the ground now we’ve heard a lot about mines. And so you’re like, oh yeah, back to the martyrs thing.

Here’s this main character she dead already. Are we onto something else?

[00:24:15] Stephen: Unfortunately right before that you heard the dog barking. So I was like, oh gosh,


[00:24:25] Rhys: hits the ground VU glands on top of her and tells her he’s going to kill her quietly. He tells her, he recognizes that smell of her perfume and tells her to welcome home and proceeds to just rape her right there on the floor of the forest. But then she wakes up and she’s on the ground. And none of that happened.

[00:24:46] Stephen: Yeah, it was that, that threw me for a moment. I was like, wait a second, because I didn’t expect that. And if it’s the war thing, right

[00:24:58] Rhys: at this stage of the [00:25:00] movie, that definitely colors your perception of these two guys they met. Yes. Volk shows up and Alex is there Luke shows up and tells them that the dog’s dead.

It it’s not dead. It’s dying. It’s

[00:25:13] Stephen: Kaputo, which was almost humorous to me, in a sad way. But using compute because we understand that, I thought that interesting thing.

[00:25:22] Rhys: So what ended up happening, is the dog hit the landmine, the blast knocks Selma off her feet and shook her up a bit.

Milos is going to put the dog out of his mouth. Alex tries to stop him and Fukes trying to explain to them that it’s for the best and then Selma out of nowhere, just no longer scared, no longer questioning, no longer hiding her identity gets very serious and tells Luke to let Alex go. And now he realizes that she’s actually from the area and he’s oh, here translate.

And he wants her to translate to Alex what’s going on. [00:26:00] And she’s the worst translator ever. Every time someone tells her to translate something. She really doesn’t. She just stands there and stares at people. Alex goes over and covers up the dog and she comes over and she tells them they need to get out of there

[00:26:14] Stephen: because Deanna Reeves is on his way to get revenge for the dog.

That’s right.

[00:26:18] Rhys: That’s right. Okay, Luke hears that our name is Selma and it tells you the forest is dangerous. And that’s what they’re out there for. The two of them are out there just to protect travelers in this remote section of Bosnia, Herzegovina from

[00:26:33] Stephen: landmines, right? That’s the best you can come up with.


[00:26:40] Rhys: He tells her that Alex and she and Alex are now their responsibility. Alex wants to go with them and Selma wants nothing to do with them. So Milos invoke aside from, being a bit shady seeming appear to actually be a pair of decent guys up to this point, Selma is insistent. [00:27:00] They don’t go with these guys.

Alex’s insisting. They do. She tells them they’re in danger and she starts to walk a few feet away and then she like lays down and she has a wound from the blast on her side. Alex is trying to call for help on his phone while he’s doing that book and Milos are just making a litter like right away to carry

[00:27:20] Stephen: her off.

Which looked good for them. But again, I’m looking at Alex going, wait a second, you had to walk away from the car, but now you’re calling somebody for help. And what your directions were in the forest help really? Oh, sorry. Just, you and I we’ve been enough in the forest. You can’t just say I’m in the forest.

It could be 500 square miles on forest. Good luck finding.

[00:27:46] Rhys: But he listen moot. Milos and fluke are making the litter and they make a bet that the line will go dead. And

[00:27:53] Stephen: it was a cop. He gets the top.

[00:27:55] Rhys: And of course it does. So Milos owes Luke like 20 [00:28:00] euros or whatever it was,

[00:28:00] Stephen: He lost reception or the cop hung up on him.

[00:28:04] Rhys: That’s a great question. I would assume it was reception because a it’s in a slightly underdeveloped part of Europe in the middle of a forest,

[00:28:13] Stephen: which I thought too, but the way those two were talking about the line going dead, I wondered if they knew the cop would be like, I’m not dealing with crazy whoever just like the cops don’t do things or they’re lazy, or they don’t deal with people that aren’t there nationality, whatever.

I dunno, I questioned that, but it’s not important.

[00:28:34] Rhys: So I’m Mila, should folks say that you’re going to take them to their hideout? Literally. Yes. Yeah. And it turns out they actually speak English and Alex finds out when he says fucking Bosnians and fluke replies. We’re not Bosnians we’re Serbs. So let the fucking Serbs help your Bosniak girl.

And in that one line, we know that Milos and Fuke understand everything that they’re been saying back and forth, and they recognize her as [00:29:00] Bosniak and they are Serbian.

[00:29:02] Stephen: So there’s your big

[00:29:03] Rhys: conflict? Yeah. Just pour the milk on the cereal. That was just bam right there. It’s all done. They know what she is, but they still put her on the litter.

They’re carrying her away. Milos makes some jokes. What good is a woman. Yeah. She’s the decoration around her pussy and I’m like, wow, that is Uber misogynistic.

[00:29:29] Stephen: That was the worst. But the weird thing is that was where it really put them in a really different light where you weren’t questioning it too much, because that was totally there.

It’s like everything else had been acting up to this point and that was like, oh, okay. Yeah, she’s right. These guys are the worst.

[00:29:49] Rhys: Yeah. They arrive at the camp and the camp or their hide hideout and their hideout is actually a bunker. It’s an old war bunker buried [00:30:00] in the ground underneath.

Underneath the forest floor and Alex is we’re not going in there. And Mila says, look, I’m sorry, but you’re not on your honeymoon anymore. This is what we have to work from. Selma wakes up and Alex tells her not to worry about anything. He’s her guardian angel. And while he’s standing there saying that Huq shoots him.

Yeah, and then drags her way by her hair. And he and Milos take her into the hole in the ground. And the screen goes black. You can imagine all kinds of horrible things happening to her because she’s screaming through the blackness. And when the image comes back up, VUCA and Milos hit her until her it’s just the beginning and it, then it just flows seamlessly into a flashback of the day.

And you see what actually happened when she was a little girl. And when this happens, you [00:31:00] realize maybe they didn’t really shoot Alex and maybe they really didn’t just drag her by your hair down into this. It was the day that her father was ethnically cleansed right in front of her. She was there when he was shot and before he shot, he hands her a necklace and the Serbian shoulders, soldiers take him away and shoot him.

And the screen goes black and we hear so much. And the blackness melts away to reveal that she’s laying down and there’s firelight and someone’s shushing her and stroking her face. And it’s Alex is telling her it was all just a bad dream. It’s important to know that it wasn’t all just a bad dream though.

Part of it was just a memory of what had actually happened to her and her people, in

[00:31:44] Stephen: this place. And I do like that. He used a bunker again, that really emphasizes the political statement about the war because you’re in a forest who expects a bunker in the middle of a big forest like that.

But, again, these [00:32:00] weren’t big countries, so they didn’t have the billions of dollars budget for the air. These were guys on the ground with guns, walking through the land.

[00:32:08] Rhys: And I think it actually. A little more concreteness to the conflict itself because a lot of us heard about it, and it sounded just guys running through the woods, shooting at each other, but no, here’s an actual structure that is built under the ground of this forest.

So it wasn’t something small. For the people who were there, this was war and it

[00:32:32] Stephen: lasted for years. And so the bunker in the mines, I mean that’s some horrific boy scout camping stories there, we never dealt with that. We still don’t deal with that, but these people still are decades later to

[00:32:44] Rhys: this day.

Yep. Alex tells her, he’s got good news and bad news. The good news is she’s going to be fine. And the bad news is they missed their plane,

[00:32:53] Stephen: which was my type of joke. That’s that might get in trouble for,

[00:32:57] Rhys: Milos and food coop dressed the wound and he tells her it’s [00:33:00] nothing serious. They are actually in the bunker.

They get a generator up and running and lights come on to reveal that Milos invoke or down in the compound as well. And she tells Alex it’s a trap and he ignores her Milos.

[00:33:13] Stephen: Let me interrupt again. They said, they’re helping people walk through the forest. We know they’re lying. Okay. But seriously, if what you want to do in life is kidnap people.

And whatever reason, I don’t know if they chose the best location for that. I think if you really want to be successful at that, this doesn’t seem like you get a lot of traffic.

[00:33:35] Rhys: You bring up a good point. I think about it and I’m like, I don’t think that’s why they were in the forest. I think it was just opportunity presented itself.


[00:33:45] Stephen: agree, because if you’re

[00:33:46] Rhys: going to hold people for hostage and there’s two of them, you’re going to want more than just two of, just because, you’re only leaving one person to guard two people when someone else goes to mail a ransom letter.

[00:33:56] Stephen: And they never answered this in the story, but you wonder [00:34:00] what these two really are doing in the forest.

Are they hiding out, maybe from the war or are they like some of our certain peoples that don’t think the war ended and they’re still trying to continue it? I mentioned Hogan zeros. Wasn’t there that one crazy guy from the Japanese war that kept showing up in it. And then they’re like, try, always trying to tell them that war is over or something.

[00:34:22] Rhys: Yeah. It, there’s a lot of questions they don’t answer. And I think. They’re while there they’d be interesting to hear the answers to they’re immaterial to the story itself.

[00:34:32] Stephen: Jeez, sorry, which it’s fine, which again is a difference between American movies and other kind of, a lot of times

[00:34:40] Rhys: we’ve seen, they would have gone through and we would already know that these guys are wanted criminals, were escape from some insane asylum kind of deal.

Milos pulls out a bottle of shops and he drinks it and he tells Selma to drink. Some, her father would have liked it. And she spits in his face, which I was like good for her. Yes. When she does that [00:35:00] Milos grabs for her hair and she pulls out his knife. Alex yells at her yelled at her and asks her if she realizes what would happen if she used this, we find out later she knows exactly what

[00:35:17] Stephen: she’s pretty good with a

[00:35:20] Rhys: knife.

He continues to be raped her. And she says that scum like that killed my whole family. And he’s like the war’s over and not all Serbs are bad people. She says she calls him naive. He calls her paranoid and then she slaps him and he threatens her to never slap him again.

[00:35:39] Stephen: Which I don’t think she’s that worried about him

or her.

[00:35:45] Rhys: Her priority of concern is right where it should be. Then he says, she’ll end up getting the boat killed. She doesn’t back down and tells him you got us into this. Now do something to get us out of here. There is one of the few times at the start of this movie where you’re like, [00:36:00] she’s not the scared little girl running through the forest.

The first one was when they told, when she told fluke to let go of Alex back when the dog died. And another one happens right here where you’re like, oh no, she’s a very serious thing. Sees not just the pretty bobble that you see at the start of the

[00:36:18] Stephen: movie. She definitely grew up in a war zone.

She was young when things were starting and she was on her own then, so you gotta imagine what she did what she survived and, she’s, you see all those stereotypical movies and stuff, the rebels with the guns, the kids, and that’s what they grew up in. That’s what she grew up in.

She’s obviously. Trying to move on and have a better life now, but that’s who she is at the heart of it.

[00:36:42] Rhys: The Serbs went outside to smoke and cool down. Alex comes out and he starts by apologizing. The funeral. It turns out was not for her grandmother. It was for her father and brothers who were found in a mass grave.

The weather’s been wet. The ground shifted to the grave, opened up. People found it, they [00:37:00] identified her father and her brothers from all the bodies. That’s why she came back for this funeral. So this is super on the surface with her

[00:37:07] Stephen: right now. Yeah. And he goes out to try and reason with these guys and talk to him.

I really, they probably should’ve made him American. He just has,

[00:37:15] Rhys: apparently Germany’s the America of Europe.

[00:37:18] Stephen: I don’t know.

[00:37:18] Rhys: Says it’s a Bosniak thing. Uncontrollable women. That’s just a Bosniak thing. That’s just how they are. Milos, obviously doesn’t like him, but book says, leave him alone.

He’s a nice guy. And at this point I’m like maybe the I should have known better, but you’re like, maybe there’s a peaceful solution in here. Somehow Ameluz leaves and food. Can Alex are sharing. The fluke tells Alex, he likes him, but he doesn’t like Selma. Alex gives VUCA his card and suggests that he just let him in Soma go, just let us go.

We’ll go away. And then you

[00:37:53] Stephen: got a wonder too. Why would he even say that? Unless he suspected at least something of what she was saying, because [00:38:00] if you thought everything was fine, you’re like, look, Hey, we’re just going to take off. Thanks for your help. So he, the way he worded it, obviously there’s a little tension somewhere with him.

He gets a bit of, at least a

[00:38:11] Rhys: bit. Volks starts rattling off directions on how to get out of the forest in Serbian. Alex is I’m sorry, I don’t understand. And hooks like, oh, it’ll cost you 10,000 euros for me to translate. And he’s like our work costs money and you need to pay us money to help out the good work we’re doing.

Alex says not to worry about it. And then Milos hits him in the gut with the butter. Mean let’s tell them not to let things get complicated. And we leave them out there beating on Alex A. Little bit. Selma is coming out of the bunker while this is happening. And Alex turns is like run and she doesn’t really have anywhere to run

[00:38:55] Stephen: to through the minefield

[00:38:59] Rhys: past these [00:39:00] two guys, one’s holding a gun.

So she runs back into the bunker and she grabs the knife from earlier and just disappears into the darkness of a black. That’s 50 minutes to into this movie. So it’s been a slow burn to get here.

[00:39:15] Stephen: I’ve got those exact words,

[00:39:18] Rhys: but it’s 40 minutes left. You’re like, wow. Okay.

[00:39:22] Stephen: I wasn’t even that long a credit, we’re used to, to Avengers, which is this was just, it was like an old time.

[00:39:29] Rhys: Selma is walking around with the knife out in a defensive posture between her and anybody. Who’d be coming to her in the front. That’s the

[00:39:35] Stephen: definitely a, I am comfortable and skilled with knife. The way she’s handling,

[00:39:39] Rhys: She’s got her necklace in her hand and she pulls the chain off of her neck and she’s invoking Yamaha V2 and the camera pants, the right.

And we see this wrapped up blurry female figure standing behind. As she turns though, she doesn’t see it. [00:40:00] Maybe she does.

[00:40:02] Stephen: It’s she’s used to it. She knows. I thought that earlier in the forest. Yeah.

[00:40:07] Rhys: And then Milos, she’s standing behind her and he calls her name. He says she hasn’t been very nice to him, but it doesn’t matter.

He forgives her and then he proceeds to lean in to sniffer hair. When he does that. And I just thought, she’s fiery in the first place. I don’t know what he’s hoping is going to happen here.

[00:40:27] Stephen: I think it’s that we’re better than you. So this is.

[00:40:34] Rhys: He Linds Lee. He says he forgets her leans in to sniff her hair.

She slices the back of his neck.

[00:40:41] Stephen: Excellent way to do it.

[00:40:43] Rhys: Yeah. And he pulls back in his face, actually looks shocked and hurt. I can’t believe you did that to me. He’s a little kid and then he proceeds to curse her dead mother. And the screen kind of goes black and we hear some more knife plunges in the dark, and there’s no [00:41:00] more cursing coming from a Milos.

[00:41:04] Stephen: And this is another thing, you always watch those movies where they stab them once in the shoulder and then walk away. It’s they’re not down. Do it like 10 more. And she does, oh man, she doesn’t stop. Yeah.

[00:41:14] Rhys: And then behind her, we see her and behind her, we see this blurry figure in the credits listed as the mouse, it pulls off its cloaks and in the blurriness, it almost looks like this naked alien kind of figured

[00:41:28] Stephen: out.

But my thought is like, where is this really going with that? And I have to watch it a little more. It’s okay, is that thing real? Is it following her? Is it, is she manifesting it or is that all in her mind? Because of the rest of the movie. Is this what it, yeah, I think that’s what he wanted you to be asking.

[00:41:52] Rhys: This figure walks over and like sits astride, Milos his body on the ground and the camera actually tightens up and you [00:42:00] can see it’s completely featureless. It’s got no eyes, no nose, no mouth. It seemingly covered in like scars all over its body,

[00:42:08] Stephen: like a martyr.

[00:42:10] Rhys: Yeah. And it sits up straight and Milos his body on the ground, reaches down and snaps his back.

And then the music shifts, because up until now, it had been this scary kind of tension building music, and now it builds into threatening music. You can hear Selma’s voice saying, yeah, Fitsu she’s not moving her mouth, but you can hear her voice over and she’s holding up her knife and stocking off into the darkness.

[00:42:34] Stephen: They became more, not so much a protection chance as almost a, an on an, on the attack. Almost like a spell. It really took on that different quality.

And I looked it up at that point, cause I’m like, okay, hold on. I need to look this up because she really seems to be using a different, like she’s so many. Yeah.

[00:42:55] Rhys: Now they do this in movies all the time and I get that it’s, it’s handy, but she’s [00:43:00] backing up. She’s in a defensive posture, walking backwards.

If it was me, I would not be doing. Let’s take maybe three steps back to get my back to a wall and then move along sideways. So I can see where I’m headed.

[00:43:14] Stephen: You’re not as dramatic as she was. I am

[00:43:17] Rhys: not. We see Fukes standing behind her out of focus with a gun. As she’s backing up, she almost backed into him.

He hits her in the back of the head with the butt of it, kicks away the knife and ask her where Milos is. He grabs her necklace and acts again, asks again. And she says, cut, put,

[00:43:37] Stephen: I love that.

[00:43:40] Rhys: He grabs her by the throat and says, he’s a little disappointed, hoping she would have defended herself more, they’re all the same.

Those Bosniaks. They liked to be victims. He then says, still enjoy themselves for a while. And it starts to count down like he’s playing a game. He starts counting down and tells her to run and she disappears in the darkness and he fires off a couple [00:44:00] shots. Here’s the noise behind him. And he spins and fires now.

My first issue with this guy in this scene is your partner is nowhere to be found. It was just her down here with a bloody knife. Why are you letting

[00:44:19] Stephen: her go? And one of your partners still there and you hear him in the dark good points.

He’s slow. Maybe that’s why they’re still in the woods. Maybe they deserted. Cause they’re really not that good. Just way better than they are.

[00:44:35] Rhys: He is slowly turning with his gun in the hand as the can camera pans in the opposite direction. Very slowly. Movies is pretty popular in film to do this. It adds this extra dimension of movement.

And he’s panning and the whole thing plays out. I’ll find you, you can’t hide bang and then little mouse bang, and he chuckled a little bit. Whereas you gone to, when I finished playing with you, I’ll go [00:45:00] play with Europe bang. And this keeps going. He just keeps doing this. He says he’ll bury her so deep.

No one will know she ever existed.

[00:45:08] Stephen: This is a pretty good thread. Yeah.

[00:45:12] Rhys: This entire, that entire scene lasts for three whole minutes

[00:45:18] Stephen: from the directors. Mood and atmosphere setting. Yeah, not the whole movie. Yeah. He does a fantastic job of that.

[00:45:25] Rhys: At the end of this three minutes, he lowers his gun and turns to go elsewhere to go look for and Selma is right there in his face and slides the knife into him.

she says, and she pulls the knife out slowly there, he slowly the camera pans back revealing the mouse is standing just off of his left shoulder and the shot where she stabs VU. And you see the mouse that took over a minute.

[00:45:56] Stephen: Oh, wow. I didn’t realize that. Yeah, it’s gotta be well [00:46:00] done. If you don’t realize how long it’s taken,

[00:46:03] Rhys: she then just terrifyingly from his perspective, just melts into the blackness.

That was the best. Yeah. And she’s leaving the bunker. She’s out in the open air. She finds, Alex is beat up by a tree and he’s still telling her to run and she’s holding him. And then she tells them they’re dead. He seems confused. And she tells him he’s safe. But now he’s looking at her a little bit differently.

She said, they’re dead heads down into the bunker and finds both of the Serbs. And he turns around and sees her there. And this now she has her head covered, like she did at the start of the movie. Yes.

[00:46:40] Stephen: Which led me to the we, that. Typical look, we would see of a rebel in the war. That was a stereotype.

Look, I would say if I was looking at

[00:46:53] Rhys: well, it’s also common in Muslim culture, for women have their head covered. And perhaps it’s [00:47:00] almost a way of saying thank you to you for this section here. I had strayed from the path for a minute and now I’m back on it. Thank you for the protection.

Okay. I

[00:47:10] Stephen: took it more as she regressed back to what she was.

[00:47:14] Rhys: That’s a good one too. They pulling the bodies out.

[00:47:24] Stephen: You’re dragging them half a mile or whatever through mine fields and burying them. Why?

[00:47:31] Rhys: I point sure. It was

[00:47:33] Stephen: Alex’s idea. Oh yeah. He does not change his worldview throughout this, not for the country. Not for her, not for the world himself. He’s. This is how it is, won’t accept that. Not everything’s like that all the time.


[00:47:49] Rhys: And there’s this very subtle thing that happens when they’re throwing them in this like shallow grave that they’ve prepared. Milos, his head is separated from his body. [00:48:00] Like they put Fuke down in there and then she just tosses Milos his head and it lands right down next to fluke.

[00:48:09] Stephen: It’s not funny, but it’s, it is in a way it’s that dark humor.


[00:48:14] Rhys: that thing. If, because you never see her actually do that. When it happens. If this had been an American film, the camera would’ve gone straight to the severed head and like just sat there and froze for a while,

[00:48:27] Stephen: tied into her belt for awhile. Yeah.

[00:48:33] Rhys: Alex is just sitting there and she’s you wanted to understand me, didn’t you. And she tells him, you can’t imagine what they did to my family. Just because they were Muslims, they told her as a child to scream and someone would come to help. And did he hear her scream? She asks him where he was, and this is where I was like, oh my gosh, this is the director asking the rest of Europe.

Where were you? While the Bosniaks were screaming? And

[00:48:59] Stephen: [00:49:00] she’s again, I chuckling because Alex just doesn’t get it. Doesn’t accept any of it. He’s just, yeah. I, it’s not dense. It’s just, his world has been so different, and he won’t what’s right in front of him.

[00:49:15] Rhys: Does he know? He never does get it.

He glares at her and. Begins helping her bury them. And as he’s doing it, he sounds like this pouting kid, right? He’s as he’s doing it, she gets up and walks away. And when he calls to her, she turns and mentions the hemiplegia the necklace that who could pull it off of her in the bunker.

And she’s going to go find it as she’s leaving. He hears the sound behind him. And I just want to take a second to point out the incredible sound work in this movie. It was incredible. Just. These little subtle sounds that they would put in and, it would let you know that something was happening.

It was almost like a visual [00:50:00] cue. That’s how strongly,

[00:50:01] Stephen: and we’ve had quite a few movies like that. I think the whole sound effects in horror really can lend a lot to it. People don’t understand that. That’s why this is my tech rant for a second. That’s why I laugh. These people will go out and buy 85 inch TVs that have speakers this big on them.

I’m like, I’d rather get a smaller TV and get a good surround sound because that sound can make such a difference in a movie.

[00:50:28] Rhys: Yeah. VUCA is still alive. That’s what the sound is. But he is suffering just like Alex has done.

[00:50:34] Stephen: So did she mean for that to happen? Because she stabbed villas art Milos 2 million times and cut his head off, whereas VU, she said once and let it go and assume it was.

Which, yeah.

[00:50:48] Rhys: They always tell you there’s nothing more painful than an abdominal injury like that

[00:50:53] Stephen: in the old west. Yeah.

[00:50:55] Rhys: Yeah. Yeah. Alex picks up this big rock [00:51:00] to like smash in Luke’s head, cause it’s the nice thing to do. That’s what they told him about his dog, but he can’t do it. All of those promises you made to take care of her and to protect her and be her guardian angel.

And he’s just really not up to doing it. He walks away and tries to calm down and comes back and starts to unbury Luke. And while he’s doing it, he finds the hammer. Legia invokes pocket. It just, as he’s pulling the necklace out, you hear a gun cock and Soma is standing there looking very determined and she’s got the gun pointed.

I’m assuming it Vogue. But Alex is between the two. And she’s get out of my way Alex. And he’s trying to talk her down and she repeats herself. And Alex is turn them over to the police. He calls her mouse again and then proceeds to talk about how he wants to go home with her. But if she shoots Fuke Alex, can’t go home with her.

It’s not who he is. And he does manage to gently take the gun away.

[00:51:59] Stephen: [00:52:00] So she must care about him because he’s everything she’s gone through and you know that. So

[00:52:05] Rhys: who knows why seems like such a tool

[00:52:09] Stephen: through all the time. Yes. But did she ever have a boyfriend before anyone that gave her any attention?

[00:52:15] Rhys: It’s funny because he generally takes the gun away from her and then he walks away over to the body and just tosses the gun on the ground. And I’m like, that is a loaded cocked gun. You just,

[00:52:28] Stephen: it would have been funny of it, hit a landmine at that point.

[00:52:30] Rhys: She is, he’s walking away.

She’s just standing there and she is simmering. She is so pissed off and it’s another long shot. Just you seeing how mad and how hard she is trying to get over this desire to end this guy. But she walks over to Alex is trying to help Luke up. She kneels down next to them and Alex is talking about moving Vic to the stretcher and he walks away to go get the stretcher and Fuke looks up at Selma and says [00:53:00] little mouse.

Maybe it was me who killed your family and then spits. And

[00:53:06] Stephen: then we get to, you got a question. Did he say that or is that in her mind? There’s a lot of places where that’s questionable based on the rest of the movie. I said, there’s a

[00:53:18] Rhys: lot of times in this movie, you were going to love it because you’re wondering, is she just crazy or is this actually happening?

We cut to Alex, who’s standing over against the tree, catching his breath, and then you hear this sound. What is the large rock coming down on skull over and over again?

[00:53:33] Stephen: Good sound. I identified it,

[00:53:39] Rhys: but here we are, again, Selma is doing what Alex could not, right? Whether or not actually said that still. She is actually following through with what Alex was poised to do with the rock over his head. He just couldn’t bring himself to do it. Alex begins to back away and now Selma is [00:54:00] the blurred figure she has become.

Let’s see Emma and she’s calling out to Alex saying she had to do it, and he turns his back and starts to walk away, ignoring her, please. She calls to him once more and he turns and yells at her. And then boom. The landmine that he stepped on, goes

[00:54:18] Stephen: off. Yeah. I knew land mines were going to come back.

[00:54:21] Rhys: Yeah. And then the movie seamlessly goes from that reality to a flashback of this girl walking through a park, she is meeting Alex in the park. They’re hanging out with a bunch of other college friends. He’s talking on the phone, trying to find one of his other friends. And while he’s talking on the phone, there’s an explosion.

And he turns in head backs because the explosion came from where his friends were and everyone’s running around chaotically and panicking and amidst all of that. There’s a blurred image of Selma standing there with a gun and then roll credits into

[00:54:58] Stephen: the movie. [00:55:00] So that ending again, what exactly was that ending?

It. I took, I thought about it in multiple ways. Was that what Alex was remembering as he was blowing up at the end, was that what really happened and everything else in the movie was a fever dream of some sort, or was that in the middle of the war? And he wasn’t really. German or whatever that, he’s imagined.

I interpreted that. I thought of multiple interpretations that could have been, or they, everybody was a ghost. Those were people killed already in the world.

[00:55:40] Rhys: That’s crazy. I just automatically went to this is his flashback. She’s not even in it. The girl he meets isn’t her, he calls somebody.

It’s not her. This is from before he even knew her. So this is like his life flashing before his eyes, as he dies on the floors floor. [00:56:00] But again, that was my take, but your sound really interesting.

[00:56:03] Stephen: This was a film class in college. We probably would’ve gotten even more interpretations, what they want you to do, but that’s what the filmmaker did and created was that what’s really going on everywhere.

So it’s done. This would be a great movie for a film class.

[00:56:23] Rhys: And to harken back to the beginning at the start you have Selma and the forest, both these beautiful seemingly innocent things. And then here at the end, It turns out they’re not beautiful. They’re ridiculously deadly. Yes. It’s just a hidden, it’s hidden behind this facade of innocence and neutrality.

That’s really not there.

[00:56:44] Stephen: And also just made me think you saying that it’s also showing the difference between she may have grown up in what looked like a nice place, but wasn’t whereas he was in modern society and it turns out it’s not a nice place because something [00:57:00] happened there. Again, what really was that happened?

I also thought was did he not? I thought this was like after, did he not die? And she came back to get revenge on him. Oh

[00:57:16] Rhys: yeah, no, I did. I got to just count your theory. That’s not at all how I saw it, but yeah,

[00:57:24] Stephen: I guess it could have been. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn’t clear.

[00:57:27] Rhys: Yeah. It’s super ambiguous at the end.

And it’s not one of those ambiguity kind where, lock stock and two smoking barrels love that movie at the end of the movie. You don’t know if the guy has got away with it or if all of the money went in the river. So it’s he guy Richie ends it there purposely. So you, as the viewer can decide the ending of the story.

Yeah. I think the ambiguity in this one is much more ephemeral. It’s not like an either or this or that. It’s here’s what happened. And now [00:58:00] you decide why it happened.

[00:58:01] Stephen: It also depends on what your take on the rest of the movie is. If it’s just a political statement about the war, it could be one thing.

And if it’s a revenge story or if you’ll take the supernatural and it’s also, Which is great. Love it that way.

[00:58:17] Rhys: So many layers in there. Yeah. That

[00:58:20] Stephen: was the mouse. And we didn’t mention this as beginning. I have to see when I was looking things up, this movie actually made some pretty good money.

Didn’t it?

[00:58:29] Rhys: Compared to its budget. I believe it did. I don’t know that it had a huge circulation, but where it showed in a lot of Festivals and it did quite well

[00:58:40] Stephen: in those anyone’s award. So that’s good. That’s cool. Yeah.

[00:58:44] Rhys: Yeah. And honestly, the budget on this couldn’t have been too high, cause there’s not much in the way of effects, you

[00:58:51] Stephen: know where to muda Buddha.

Yeah. A lot like that.

[00:58:58] Rhys: Yeah. I don’t know that it was that cheap, [00:59:00] but still pretty close.

[00:59:02] Stephen: They had, they took

[00:59:04] Rhys: more that’s right. And they had two other actors instead of four, they had six this time.

[00:59:08] Stephen: Okay, cool.

[00:59:10] Rhys: Our next movie will not at all be ambiguous our next movie. Oh, the visitation in this movie is her visiting her whole old home.

[00:59:20] Stephen: Got it. Okay. Good.

[00:59:22] Rhys: In our next movie, we’ll be visiting a tourist attraction in the absolutely wonderful non ambiguous. Certainly not art house, film hatchet,

[00:59:30] Stephen: No, you like challenged needed to point out areas where it’s like an art house movie. So we will turn it into one.

[00:59:40] Rhys: Okay. Again, I’m not going to get into it.

Not now. When we discuss it, I’ll go into why I love

[00:59:45] Stephen: this movie. Okay. I take it as probably not like intelligent talking hatchet.

[00:59:51] Rhys: No, Nope. Not at all. And in fact, to let you know, it’s one of those movies that it came out and I think they made two or three more after [01:00:00] it. Wow.

[01:00:01] Stephen: Yeah. Okay. All right.

Looking forward to it.