We end season 03 with a bit of a period piece – so time for some history to go with your horror. The film is part Finnish and part Czech and high quality material. We seem to get a lot of film that were sponsored by government or such, and this one is an IFC film. It’s difficult to find, but has been on and off streaming at various times.
If you like your horror up front and in your face, making you jump every turn – this isn’t the film for you. If you like a sense of dread and that unsettling feeling building – yay, you made a great choice! If you want a film with a big following that likes to discuss the Freudian and Jungian meanings in films – oh boy will you love this one!
Right away you can see the culture clash between two countries at a time when man was starting to explore beyond their own borders. The setting in the past right after a war is a great setting and allows the film to really get creepy. Keep the lights on kiddies!
Stephen: All right. Or season three, episode 10, sauna. And start off on a good note. We’ve got a bonus episode we’re gonna do, which is going to be very interesting. Looking at Jordan Peele movies and comparing them. Yeah.
Rhys: It doesn’t really necessarily have anything to do with culture clash.
Oh, get out. Yeah, yeah.
Stephen: Us, yeah, us and get out could fit easily. So could, Nope. Actually, I don’t know if you watched it yet.
Rhys: I have not seen it yet. And I think I was just like, yeah, let’s do the bonus episode. And this seems this is a topic you were passionate about. Let’s do that.
Yeah. I wasn’t even thinking about the theme, but now he mentioned it, yeah, that’s hit. They do kind,
Stephen: that’s what, that’s why I brought it up and made me think of ’em. So we got that. And unfortunately we were both brain dead when you did your talk, so we don’t have that as an episode offer to people even clips or anything.
I can’t believe I did that. Me too. I had the camera even. I was going to record it and everything. Nope. But this is the last one, and then we get a whole new season. Just preview, what’s Season four’s theme?
Rhys: Season four’s theme is about jobs. Yay. The horrible things that may happen to you while you’re at work.
Stephen: All right. That’s what we need. And I’ve been watching lots of horror Christmas movies and I really had to dig down deep to find something that’s a good horror Christmas and something that’s not a slasher horror. C Oh my God. There are so many of those and they’re almost all bad. There’s only a couple that are worthwhile.
Rhys: Yeah. I’m glad you’re doing that research, .
Stephen: For my brain it makes sense. Horror movies and then Christmas movies and in between you have horror Christmas movies. Makes sense. That’s special sub genre right there. Yeah. Yeah. I’m making sure to mark all the ones that I can’t stomach with a one star, so when I look at my list, I can pull up the ones that are three star and above to watch next year
Rhys: guarding a list,
I’ve got it all in my media center. It’s all organized in the digital media center. Oh, okay. And you can give them your own personal stars. Sure. So that way I can then filter it next year and just get the good ones because me being the hoarder family that I come from, it’s hard to just get rid of something.
Maybe I’ll need it for some reason or watch it again. No, I’ll probably never watch some of these . We’ll
Rhys: hang on to those one star ones. Just in case.
Stephen: Just in case. Yeah. Yeah. So whatever. But yeah, that’s been my fun project, getting ready for actual Christmas movies, which I had to do the same thing too.
It’s oh my God, this Hallmark movie is just like the other 10, same plot.
Rhys: Yeah. You’re only gonna end up with five, right? Yeah. There’s a few Good. Hallmark and some of the other ones are good. I watched Dutch the other night with ed O’Neill. It’s a John Hughes movie.
Stephen: A good Thanksgiving one. So not horror related at all. .
Rhys: Okay. I I would be very remiss before we get started as. Podcaster YouTube type personality. But I not mentioned that Steve is wearing merch, which is now available on the website.
Stephen: Yes, I am. We’re putting a couple more shirts. You gave me some gooder images and I haven’t put ’em up yet.
I’ve got ’em here, . And I’m going be putting on the website too. People have asked us after your talk and people like Ramo Hey what’s some good movies to get started with? Because we talk about not all of them are recommended for everybody. Not all of them are Oh, for sure.
Fit. So you picked out a couple that are good starter movies. If somebody wants a horror movie that’s not the Blockbuster Slashers or Freddie Krueger or whatever. So we’re, we’ll get that list up too. So merchandise cool. And list. And I also put our, and putting our seasons on a list in i m db, so you can go to imdb.
So Love that the other day. Yeah. Yeah. So we’ll have that for season two and three, which I didn’t get done yet, but we will. And you could check ’em out on IMDB and all the information and so Yeah, I thought that place. Yeah, we’re like a little mini I was also thinking we should find somebody, one of the actors or directors of one of these and get ’em on as a guest to talk about for a bonus episode or something, know? oh yeah, we can do that. Yeah, that’d
Rhys: be fun and cool. I say we could, but. Who knows if you actually could,
Stephen: you know what, it’s one of those things that people are like, oh yeah, that won’t happen. You just send a couple emails. You may send four. And one of them may say, yeah, that’d be fun. Okay, great. But that’s more than most people do, so
Rhys: Today’s movie might not be a bad one to start with.
Stephen: Yeah, but I don’t know if we’d understand them unless they speak English. .
Rhys: Today we’re talking about Sauna. It’s a hard movie to find. Am I right
Stephen: in saying that? Yes, it was, but it’s now on Amazon Prime. It, oh. Between the time we first started looking for it, now it’s available on there.
It must some contract, I’m sure.
Rhys: It’s a Finnish film from 2008. It was a co, a agreement between Finland and the Czech Republic. I don’t know what the Czech Republic had to do with it, , because this is very much a Finnish cultural piece. Yeah,
Stephen: yeah. Very much it has three different titles. In fact the one that you will find it in English is called Sauna, but it also has been named Filth and it has also been named Evil Rising, which I think is probably the cheesiest of all three titles.
Yeah. But sauna’s very misleading. And you look at, you’re like, what the heck’s that ?
Rhys: Yeah. But it actually is a huge role in the story. Yeah. This movie was made with a budget of 930,000 euros. It’s about $932,000. Wow.
Stephen: And it is a well put together a quality film. It doesn’t look high school or college film class film or anything.
It looks right like any other movie, the lighting, the shots, the acting, it’s all pretty top notch.
Rhys: And it. We’ll get into it more in detail in a second, but that’s very important considering it’s a period piece. Oh, yeah. Period piece is if you’re gonna carry them off, they’re gonna cost quite a bit.
Yeah. It is
Stephen: like 1590. You see that date and the only time you see a horror movie that’s in 1590 is it’s a vampire movie. Vampire. I’m like, yeah, we’re not getting in another vampire movie right now. I know that
Rhys: The movie only pulled in $200,000 worldwide. Oh, that’s not good. No, it, so it was not like a moneymaker for sure.
But it was nominated for 11 awards and won five of ‘
Stephen: em. Wow. It, yeah. It was an I F C film. We’ve seen a couple of
Rhys: those. Yeah. I c midnight, nah, but regular, I ffc titles. When you see that at the start of a horror movie you’re probably in for something that’s pretty.
Stephen: Yeah, it was definitely different.
Honestly, this one was harder for me to get into than most everything else we’ve watched. Even some of the harder ones it was not because of the subtitles. It was a slow moving plot and you had to pay attention to pick up what they were really talking about. Cause there were a couple times I’m like, what is going on in this movie?
I was waiting the dread, the horror. It’s very subtle all the way through the whole thing. Yes.
Rhys: This is a period piece. It we’re gonna take a just a couple minutes and we’re gonna do a little finish history. Oh yeah. It was shot in Finland un unlike midsummer it takes place in Sweden, but it actually takes place in Romania where they shot it.
This was shot in Finland. It deals with the Russo Swedish wars at the end of the 16th century. It was a 25 year war. At the time, Finland was just an area, it wasn’t its own kingdom, it was owned by Sweden. And it extended beyond the southern borders of Finland down into the Balkans. So it had Estonia and Latvia that was all considered part of Finland.
It was all considered under Sweden’s rule. Okay.
Stephen: And there, I actually had a, I looked that up cause I questioned the Sweden thing. It’s a little early from what I found to be calling it Sweden. It was like in the 16 hundreds that actually got designated Sweden. So it’s a little early for that, but probably would’ve been more confusing, I’m assuming for movie watchers.
Yeah. We’ll get to that in a second. Okay. All right. I’m jumping ahead again.
Rhys: No, it’s fine. Russian sent troops in, there was a war, it took 25 years.
Stephen: This is like our third or fourth war movie.
Rhys: Yeah. At the end of those 25 years, They signed a peace treaty, and basically all of the kingdoms in the Balkans the Estonia, the Latvia, they all went to Russia.
And then Russia said, we’ll leave Finland alone. Now Finland, throughout time has been passed back and forth between Sweden and Russia. Sweden and Russia up until the 20th century. And at the time Russia had hold of it. And if you were a finished historian, I apologize for the abbreviated nonsense, it’s about to happen.
But during the Russian Revolution when the czars were defeated the people of Russia got together and they were all at the time in that head space of ruling people for the people by the people. And so they got together and they’re like, you know what, Finland. You want to be on your own, you can be on your own.
Yay. And Finland became its own sovereign nation. Oddly enough, a few years later, Stalin’s in charge during World War ii, and he’s no, I don’t really like that. And so he sent in his own politicians into Finland and said, these are now the rulers of Finland. And the Fins did not like that, which started the winter war between Russia and Finland.
Okay. During which the Fins started to run out of money and war supplies. And so Adolf Hitler said, Hey, you know what? We don’t like the Russians either. We’ll give you guns if you keep attacking the Russians. And the Fins are like, give us the guns, . And so they were actually supplied by the Germans during World War II to attack Russia when World War II was over.
And they were meeting out justice to all these kingdoms that helped the Nazis. Finland actually got away with next to nothing because every opportunity Finland had to fight against other allied powers. They refused. They wouldn’t attack the Americans, they wouldn’t attack the British. They wouldn’t attack the French.
The only people they were attacking were the
Stephen: Russians personal.
Rhys: Yeah. And so the war was over. Finland was its own place now. It’s been its own place ever since, and it now has one of the highest GDPs per capita of anywhere in the world. Wow. It’s an very well run fiscally responsible country.
Stephen: We should take some notes, .
Rhys: Hey. So this film was written by LiRo Kutner and directed by AJ Anila. Was born in 77 in Helsinki and he directed 12 pieces since 1999. And that includes five television series, but they’re all finished. So you and I won’t know any of right then to make matters worse, you cannot find primary sources on this guy.
There’s no interviews with him about any of the films he’s done, especially not this one. What I did find doing research though, is they call this period piece a war horror film which is the subcon I suppose. I never really gave a whole lot of thought to.
Stephen: We yeah, it’s, it would be a very small subgenre.
Rhys: There’s not a whole lot of them out there, but they tend to be pretty good.
Stephen: Yeah. And you, okay. You know about the director saying you can’t find anything in them. Let me just ask you this. Have you ever seen this director in Spielberg in the same room together? Just saying ha.
Rhys: It was pretty well liked by the critics.
I did find one guy named David Naer, who works for real film reviews. He says the film was an abominable, utterly worthless piece of work. So there’s that.
Stephen: See, we need to see what other movies he did because we’ve said it before. A lot of these movies are not for everybody. If you like’s horror, these aren’t for everybody.
It’s really any movies like that I understand. But these, especially if you’re not into this type of movie, you’re not gonna enjoy it. And it is it, for me, it was a rough one and we’ve watched several. This film has been listed several times. I found it in lots of places as a great horror film for people who don’t like horror films,
if you like war movies, if you like period pieces, it’d probably be a good choice if you’re trying to look at horror.
Rhys: There are not a ton of jump scares in this. Not at all. There’s not a whole lot in the way of graphic nature like gore or anything. There’s some special effects here and there at the end mostly. Yeah. But it makes it for a kind of a gentle push into the horror film, but we’ll get to that again here in just a second as well.
Cause I wanna mention the cast. And I’m only gonna mention two members of the cast because they’re all finished and you wouldn’t know any of their work. However, Vela Verin plays Eric and he’s been in 110 pieces. Wow. And he started his career in 1966. Wow. So the older brother with the glasses is a lot older than he looks.
Stephen: Yeah. When they did this, Finnish have good jeans.
Rhys: It’s Tommy Eron plays Newt, and he’s been in 63 projects dating back to 1993. Wow. So both of these guys are not. Strangers to film. Yeah. They’re,
Stephen: they’re a-listers on it seems a or blisters in Finland. Yes. Yeah.
Rhys: The whole theme of the season has been culture clashes and there are culture clashes involved in this movie because you have a culture clash between the Swedish and the Russians, and then you have the finish as almost a separate people in between that literally in this movie
But it’s not just the cast that has the culture clash. There’s a culture clash between us as the audience and the audience. This was made for which for Finn people.
Stephen: It’s funny you say that because I thought the same thing part way through. I’m like, okay, I know there’s stuff I’m missing because I’m not from that culture.
I don’t live there. don’t know all the feelings, the thoughts, the tropes, what works for them could be totally different than what works for us. And I felt that was part of what I was not getting with this movie.
Rhys: And so the movie’s not really made for a Western audience and it moves at a breakneck pace.
It just like glides over pieces of history that are crazy complex that they’ve known since childhood. And the rest of us are all sitting there going, wait, there was a war in Finland between Sweden and Russia in the late 16 hundreds. And then it’s got this super heavy philosophical and religious bent to it.
Yes. That makes it almost more of a debate than a movie.
Stephen: Yes. And on top of that you’ve got that little bit of hints of psychological thing. So is this real? Is this not real? Is it in their head only or not? And I love the metaphor with the swamp and the village being divided cuz it’s like hitting you over the head with the message of the war that they’re trying to bring out.
So it really has a lot in there, which probably also did not help being all of that in there from a different cultural viewpoint.
Rhys: And it’s one of those things that I did find when I was doing research, there are a lot and a lot of papers and essays about this movie and about the various philosophy or religious questions that get thrown up there and people are like actually analyzing it and publishing it online.
So if you do look online if you look online for what did. The movie sauna mean you’re not necessarily gonna find the typical kind of answer. That’s A means B means C, right? . What you’re gonna find is a bunch of philosophers going around and saying, what is the nature of our relationships with each other and the contact we make with each other, and how does that influence who we are going forward?
Stephen: Nice. And thinking about that and you this may be stretching, but I feel it’s true. That’s one of the things we’ve been doing for 30 some episodes is delving into horror movies that are more than just jump scares that. Yeah, there’s been a lot deeper meaning and talk and things like that.
And for people that enjoyed that type of movie, Don’t usually watch horror movies because they think of Freddy and Jason and Michael and all that stuff. Insidious and whatever. Hey, Amityville these are the movies to go for then, because they’re all we don’t talk about the horror half as much as we talk about the meaning and the psychological or that type of stuff within it.
Rhys: honestly you every, let’s be fair, every seven movies or so, we throw a hatchet in there just to just to stay true to our roots.
Stephen: You gotta do that because like you’ve said many times, but there’s something in horror for everybody And still even then there was a lot to talk about with Hatchet because of all the people that wanted to do it and the movies that led to and stuff.
So there’s a lot there. Even
Rhys: horror movies are never what they seem to be about. So one of those other cultural things we’re going to address now is the concept of Asana. Yes. I was just talking to my wife about this taskmaster, which is a game show where you have a bunch of comedians competing.
It was very popular in Great Britain and it spread to other European countries. And I found copy of one season of Taskmaster in Norway, which I thought was fascinating. And then I because I’ve been doing this research, so I go through and I look, and Norway is basically the size of the East Coast, right?
And it runs on one side of the peninsula, on the Atlantic side of the peninsula and goes up and it actually wraps around and touches Sweden and Finland at the top. Then you have Sweden on the other side, which is the other side of the peninsula that has a bay. And then across the bay you have Finland.
And if you took all three of ’em together and dropped ’em in the United States, it would go from the East coast to about the Mississippi River. Okay. Within that space, , they speak three different languages. Norway nor Norwegian, Swedish, and Finnish. And you might think, oh you got three different languages in like Italian, French, and Spanish.
But these languages are different enough that one of the games on Taskmaster Norway was they had someone who spoke Finnish and Norwegian on one side of the table, and they put the contestants on the other who would trying to figure out information about the person on the other side. The other person on the other side could understand what they said, but would only reply and finish , and their Norwegians had no idea what they were saying.
wow. It blows my mind how insular all of these places are. Right? And the cultures and the folklore behind the mall are just completely different as well. The further you go. Saunas.
Stephen: We do get that a little bit here. There are places down south, I can’t understand the word they’re saying , when they really start going
Rhys: Yeah, technically they’re still speaking your language though.
Stephen: You can’t prove that all the time. , sorry, go ahead.
Rhys: Saunas are actually very culturally significant in Finland. They’re ancient, they’ve been around forever. They’re seen as a place not to just cleanse your body, but your mind and to achieve a sense of inner peace.
They’ve been seen as sacred spaces, almost like a church in nature. And the steam is actually been seen as a spirit called Lok. According to Old Finn spirituality, people have three different parts to their soul. There’s the , which is yourself. There is the Luo, which is nature, and then there is Lok.
Which is representative steam in a sauna. And that’s the actual life force, the thing that keeps you alive. Wow. Okay. And so we have to take care of not just ourself and our nature, but we also have to take care of our loyalty as well in order to continue to exist. It makes our hearts pump, it makes your blood flow and your bodies warm and so on.
So it’s not just a really cool place to hang out and sweat. It’s actually got cultural significance behind it. And in the movie itself, when they come across the sauna, the Russians are like, why in the world is this here? And the Swedish guys who were from Finland are. It’s finished superstition and all of the people in the town know there’s something wrong with this sauna and don’t want anything to do with it.
Stephen: But they’re a little mysterious too. Honestly, I kept waiting for the town to disappear. . They do. Okay. Yeah. But I like , yeah. We’ll
Rhys: get to, yes, we will. So the movie opens like a lot of period pieces. Do you have a map? There’s a drop of blood running along and it’s representing, drawing the borders of the new border between Russia and Sweden.
And there’s text. Spelling out across the bottom of it that’s explaining to us that the Russo, Swedish war is over and they had two sets of cartographers. One in the north and one in the south. And they were gonna move down and map the new borders and then meet in the middle. But the group from the south never made it.
They disappeared. And this is their story.
Stephen: then, so happen to have a, a filmmaker that did make it as . Yeah. So I say that because at one point I made a comment, I said, this is like the 15 hundreds version of Blair Witch project,
Rhys: right? Because you’re not exactly sure about the supernatural entities you’re running against.
Right? There’s the babbling river. It’s the Katama River. You see the water turn red, there’s a package floating down the river. You’re not really sure what it is. It’s got fur . It seems to be wrapped in some kind of skin and maybe a broach. It floats against the ice and someone pulls it out. and it doesn’t, it’s when it was in the water, I was like, is this a body?
And you don’t know how small it is until the hands reach in and pull it out and it’s actually not that big. And they pull it out and there’s a document and lots of names written across it. And then there’s this line on the side and the subtitles come up and tell us that. It says border agreement and then it pans to another line of copy and it says We can be forgiven
Now what you’re seeing here is this is a preview of the end of the movie, right? So you can bear this in mind if you want. It was just of setting the theme for the film because after this it makes no, I no difference whether that scene was there or not. ,
Rhys: It’s a hook. you, which just good filmmaking.
Stephen: I, I oh yeah. We’ve, I’ve seen, I mentioned a few of those Christmas horrors, just horrible film. But this is a good example of really good filmmaking that they employed in this piece. Yeah.
Rhys: It jumps right from there to the dark interior. You see the back of Eric and his hands going up and down, you hear squishing noises.
It becomes evident that he is stabbing someone. You could sit there and say maybe not, but no, the camera pants back. And he is brutally, viciously stabbing a man over and over again. He’s vaguely interrupted by his younger brother, Newt who’s not overly comfortable with the brutality that his brother’s displaying.
And the first words that Eric says are 73 and nudes like 73. What? And Eric ignores the question. and says this is what peace brings. The guy had an ax hidden. He was gonna come for me, then he was gonna come for you. I just saved your life by killing this guy . Newt mentions that the girl is locked in the basement.
It’s not really a basement, it’s an outside fruit cellar type deal. But she’s locked in there. Eric says he’ll take care of her, he’ll let her out. And then Newt says there are people coming and there are lights on the ridge. And Eric tells Newt to go down and tell the people at the river they’re in a hurry, so they need to leave.
And he looks at his hand and there’s this gash in his hand. And part of me thinks he got the gash here, but they never really explain it. For sure. Yeah. I’m seeing it as like symbolic for the sin he just committed. Yeah,
Stephen: that’s because it never healed. It almost seemed worse. The Lady
Rhys: MCs best thing, right?
Yeah. Out damn spot kind of deal.
Stephen: That’s a big spot.
Rhys: Yeah. Just before the scene ends, you can see there’s this typical bian style looking painted wooden icon. And Byan, the Byzantine kingdom was long before this, but art moves very slowly as it travels around back then and this style was not uncommon for peasants to have.
It was usually like the most expensive thing that you would have in your hut, cuz it might have gold golden lay on it, or the paints involved to make blue or ridiculously expensive, that kind of thing.
Then we cut to the Russians. and the Russians are sitting there and Samsky is sitting there. He’s the leader of the Russians and he’s telling this story of three craftsmen who built a city. This leader wanted a city built and one craftsman’s, like we could make it out gold. And the other craftsman’s, like we could make it out of iron.
And then he asks the third one and it’s what should we make it out of? And he’s filth. And he’s filth, what do you mean? And here’s like this big philosophical discussion that like blows up from here on in, right? The first question we came across was, can we be forgiven? Here’s the second one.
He says, filth is the mark left. When two things touch each other, it’s the very proof that things have touched. And so filth is the material that all of our memories are made of. Then, yeah. And then Roon, the one captain is like, what’s the name of the city? and Zinski’s what’s the name of your town?
It’s kinda aha, your house is made out of filth, kind of thing. , he has a young captain with him named Musco, and he’s invented that. They’re are Raiders riding in. And Samis is like, that’s not Raiders. It’s something even worse. It’s the Swedes. And so Eric and Newt and their party ride into camp and they’re like, we gotta go.
Stephen: It, it’s a very easy alliance that they they’re both like, we gotta do this. We know, but the you get the feeling from both sides that we’d much prefer the war Eric says it pretty much yes. And the Russian commander feels feels that way too. It’s the younger ones that aren’t quite as on board.
Rhys: Mosco, several times Eric tries to goad mosco into fighting. Yeah. And he won’t do he’s even drawn his sword like a couple times in Roon. The other lieutenant is no, he’s just goading you on. Just relax. But yeah, they are not nice to each other throughout this film.
Stephen: Yeah. and I love the thinking about it.
It’s wow in, in the 15 hundreds when they were trying to set where the borders were, how did they do that? Here you go. They literally took people from each side and rode along it and marked it on a map. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s wow. It, not that I ever would’ve really wanted to devote too much time to it, but it’s one of those things that you never think about.
It was. So that was
Rhys: interesting. And the next scene actually shows you how they do it. They bring the peasants out and make them meal before them and hold up a piece of dirt and they’re like, this side is gonna be Sweden and this side’s gonna be Russia Now kiss the book. And they like, kiss the Bible.
Yeah. And they’re doing this while they’re doing this ceremony. There’s this flashback thrown in there and the flashback is throwing, showing us what happened back at the house where Eric brutally murdered that guy. They show up. There’s this guy has a young daughter if I had to guess I’d say 12 to 14, somewhere in there.
Stephen: It, yeah, it was hard to tell.
Rhys: Yeah. She’s bringing them food. Newt she’s bringing food to Newt. He’s looking at her and then he’s back at the ceremony and there’s this voice whispering and it says, come back. That’s all the more of the flashback we’re getting right now. Eric’s trying to rush them along.
Salinsky wants to know what’s the rush, and he says, home sickness. I just want to get going. Turns out it’s not actually home sickness. Eric is just afraid that the gang of peasants who’s chasing him for the brutal mys that he’s committed will actually catch up with him at some point
Stephen: in time. So the Spanish Inquisition, right?
Rhys: Yes. The villagers with the torches and pitchforks. . Zinsky the next, that night, the next scene is at night, Zinsky has caught himself a moth and he’s pinning it live into this collection full of insects. And Newt explains that Zinsky wants to have an animal or plant named after him by the time this is over.
And it of shows you zinski’s nature, right? He wants to classify everything. And the pinnacle of that would be to have something like called the Zinsky or something like that. He’s very orderly. He’s into, these are the rules kind of things, right? Eric tells him not to get too close to him because Zinski’s more dangerous than he looks.
Newt gives him a cup of Russian tea, which he’s never had before, and he contemplates it. And it’s mostly he’s contemplating it because Eric loathes everything Russian because he was 16 when the war started, and for the past 25 years, he’s done nothing but fight Russians. It would be a hard shift to make.
Stephen: And you also, there’s some of the culture clash. We may be neighbors, we may be done with the war, but I don’t have to like you and I’m not going to even say this is good, even if it’s not or if it is. Yeah. At this point, Newton forms Derek, that he’s been offered a position at Stockholm University and he asks Eric if he’s angry, and Eric’s are you, because I brought you out here for nothing?
Rhys: And newt’s oh no, you didn’t bring me out here for nothing. I’m mapping like some of the last unknown places in the kingdom of Sweden. I’ll be able to give this to the king. This is important. So Newt has actually sees this as an opportunity for growth as a cartographer. The following day they’re talking about it and they’re saying it’ll take two days
Stephen: cross the swamp.
And the minute they said that he, and he said we’ll see you in two days. I’m like, yep, no you won’t. , . There’s a horror trope that is the same across cultures. .
Rhys: Yeah. There’s this little thing. Musco speaks in Russian to Roon as he’s looking at the map and Roon translates and he says that the map is the most beautiful map he’s ever seen.
And he’s congratulating Newt on his abilities. This is a very subtle point that becomes super important later. Zinski’s, like the swamps unpopulated. Why don’t we just draw the line straight through it? We’ll go around and Eric’s no, we’re supposed to go through it and actually mark it.
And if you don’t want to, then we’ll just call the whole thing Swedish and you can just seed the whole thing. I’m ready to shake on it right now. Zinsky won’t do that, but it turns out the whole reason Eric wants to do that is that the horses can’t go through the swamp. So everyone else is gonna take the horses and go around the swamp and Eric and Nut and Samsky and his two officers are gonna go through it.
So if the peasants who are hunting them down are tracking them, they will follow the horses around the swamp and those guys will be safe in the middle. . That’s the
Rhys: Yeah, that’s the plan. But that kinda shows you Eric’s whole mindset. He’s constantly thinking about how to stay alive.
Yeah, I’ve committed these atrocities. I don’t care. No one’s gonna catch me on this kind of thing. The other super interesting thing for me, and I’ve been chewing on this for a while, you notice it right away. Eric wears eyeglasses.
Stephen: I marked that down too. Go ahead.
Rhys: And eyeglasses over the nose, eyeglasses did not come into vogue until the 17th century, which would make the ones he’s wearing like prototypes, like and so I’ve been chewing over why he has them. And from a story standpoint, it’s very interesting because a lot of the story of Eric throughout this is, I’m a soldier. I’ve always been a soldier. What does a soldier do once war is over? And what does a soldier do once he’s too old to fight anymore? and the glasses are a constant reminder for him that he’s too old to keep doing this.
Because without them he can’t see.
Stephen: And there’s one or two little things where he says, oh, I can’t see that. But then there’s that little bit at the end when he is talking about his brother in the light reflecting on the glasses. That’s like the only parts in the movie that really needed the glasses.
And even that’s arguable. And I looked it up too. I was like, oh, come on. But glasses have been around since the 12 hundreds. Yep. I’m like, wow, that’s, I would’ve lost that in a game of timeline . Right?
Rhys: Absolutely. Yeah. They just, they didn’t come into Vogue until the 17th century, so that would make his super early.
But they still had, the monks typically had them, and I guess they were like super bulky cuz the glass was really thick. Yeah. Like my dad’s . Yeah. So they set out across this marshy area, Newt, here’s this whisper over his shoulder, and it’s the girl’s voice saying, come back. And now we have another flashback to that night.
And the girl the peasant daughter is carrying this bucket to the sauna where they’re in there cleaning themselves. She stops and focuses on Eric’s glasses. And this is another thing that I think is very interesting. They’re very well made. They’re very pretty. They draw the eye of the innocent, so like she’s very interested in them.
The boy from the village is very interested in them. And it’s super ironic considering the person who’s wearing them is so ruthless and so dangerous. That’s true. Yeah. While she’s there, she looks through the cracks in the wall at two guys in the sauna getting clean. . Eric’s complaining about getting older and he’s complaining about his glasses and how he can’t see anything without them.
And then there’s this half a scene where new turns, and it’s actually super important because we can see he’s got a birth mark in between his shoulder blades. It reminds me of the Rebel Alliance symbol. a
Stephen: little bit. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. And for those that want the equality, it’s all the nudity in this movie is men, so Yes.
You’re not getting lots of nude women. So there you go. Some equality . Yeah.
Rhys: Eric notes that the girl’s out there, but she runs off. And then Newt is starting to wonder out loud, Hey, what do you think happened to the wife of this guy? And then it jumps a little further to where she’s bringing the bull and there’s this kind of glance between Newt and the daughter.
Again, she’s very young. For supper, the peasant has provided them with this large round roll of bread. Eric seems quite upset by it. And then he notes that there’s this rack and he’s what was on the rack? And the peasant’s I don’t remember. Nutts just sitting there eating. Eric gets up and asks if the people in the village are happy now that they’ve been liberated from the Russians and the peasant’s like, yes, we are so happy.
Then Eric claims he remembers what the Rack is for and he rips it off the wall and he accuses the man of having hidden family icons. Again, they would’ve been worth a lot of money and both sides to trying to recoup funds here. So it would not be uncommon for soldiers to seize these kind of things or for a peasant to have hidden them.
The peasant goes for Eric. Newt grabs him, but Eric Lightning fast grabs the daughter, pins her to the table and puts a dagger up to her eye. And he says he’s been a fighting this war since he was 16, and it’s been called off because it’s too gruesome. He swears the girl wouldn’t be the most innocent victim of his.
Newt is appalled by what he’s seeing take place right here. He then asks where the hidden larder is, and so the peasant takes them out to the hidden larder where all the good food is. He puts the girl in there and the main thing was that the food the guy was pro was providing him for dinner was not the quality he wanted.
So he claims and he knew he, yeah. He knew the guy had better. And so this is his way of finding where the better is. He takes it all. Newt’s still trying to be a good guy. He’s you’ll get a receipt for all this. I’m like, and the peasants even yeah, I’d get a receipt from the Devil . Then he goes upstairs and leaves Newt with his daughter down there, and NT starts to apologize to her too.
He’s look, all the men are tired. They’re hungry. He kinda walks her into the corner and looks like he’s gonna kiss her, and she reacts like a little kid. She just covers up her faces and suddenly it dawns on him. He is like, what the hell am I doing? And so he leaves and locks the door and she’s like, why?
And he’s you’re locked in here because my brother is in a very unpredictable mood right now, and you’d be safer down here. Then he sees lights coming over the ridge and decides he’s gonna go tell Eric about it. This is when the movie started and we find that Eric’s actually killed the guy. Now we’re back to the present and Newt is in the swamp and looking at his compass.
And the compass is just swirling around, which is never a good sign. Never a good sign. I’ve used, always used, I’ve used a lot of compasses in my time. I’ve never seen
Stephen: one do that. ? No, not a, not randomly. And if it did, I’d probably run the other way. Yeah. These swamps reminded me of the dead swamps from token just, especially when he is playing with the water and stuff.
And I’m just like, oh man, I’m it reminded me of it too because they talk about all the people. He is killed in the 73, and I’m thinking he’s seeing the reflections of the dead bodies and reflections of his life. And that’s where the glasses come in with that reflection thing too later. Yeah.
Rhys: Yeah. Newt seems completely lost.
He looks in the distance and sees what looks like a young girl in a white dress, and the dress is dirty at the bottom. It’s got filth on it, and she’s got her hands over her face just like the girl did down in the basement. There’s no question that she is an analog for the peasant daughter who is left behind.
And Eric is at a pool facing his own demons. You can look through the reflection and there’s bodies in the water. He reaches down and stirs the water and there’s nothing there. So yeah, there’s this whole reflection of your sins coming
Stephen: back to haunt you. And again, are they really seeing this stuff or is it really there or not?
Is it just them? It makes, it’s one of those movies. There’s a l not quite as much as some, but a little bit of questioning the reality of it up and up to a point. Yes. Yeah. . Yeah.
Rhys: Eric unwraps his hand to clean it. It looks just as bad as when it happened again. There’s that scar of the sin he just committed.
Samsky comes over, and this is when we find out that both Eric and Newt were born in Finland. So they’re Finnish, but they’ve embraced their Swedish nationality. They’ve turned their back on their Finnish uprisings. He asked them what kind of flower it is, and Eric says it’s a sauna flower. Now, with that,
Stephen: I, I even throughout the movie, I couldn’t figure out what the connection was between the sauna and the flower sauna and why they brought that up and said it was common.
I, maybe I missed something there. But I.
Rhys: So Zinski’s constantly looking to have something named after him. Oh yeah. And so he’s here and he finds this flower that he find thinks is very attractive, and he’s thinking, maybe this is it. Maybe this could become the salinsky flower. And it turns out, no, this flower’s older than you.
The culture is older than you. It’s a sauna flower, which is something that predates most known settlements in the area. Which
Stephen: also of shows the people coming in and taking over another people in land and all go named these things that are undiscovered. No, the people that were here knew ’em and had names for ’em.
Yeah. So yeah, they’re discovered
Rhys: not by you. We see this there’s this scene where Musco and Roon are standing there, and Roon seems to walk off into the woods a little bit. And then we jump back to Newt and he still sees. The figure of the peasant girl in the distance and he is like keeping his eye on her.
And he walks around this tree and when he turns the corner, she’s like way closer. Never a good sign. . Yeah. Now he just turns in Scarper, he’s running off. He comes back and he finds ROEs in ceiling kneeling on the ground and he gets up and he is got this weird look on his face. Cuz typically he’s of like this kind of, I don’t wanna say Oish character cuz he is not big, but he doesn’t come across as smart a lot of times throughout this movie.
But he walks over and he asks him about fire
Rhys: he says, can’t you purge things with fire purges, anything? And nut’s yeah. And he’s but what if hell isn’t a place underneath our feet that’s fiery and flaming? What if hell is just a place of utter filth that God can’t see?
and all of a sudden, boom, there’s a whole nother philosophical discussion right there. Yeah. Happening. Because if you consider their definition of filth is anytime anything meets, it’s what makes up all of mankind’s memory. Maybe hell is just your own memories without the light of God shining down on it,
Stephen: which I’m sure it’s Craven and Clive Barker both would agree.
Rhys: They’re like, yeah. It’s, it is a very heavy little scene that is just thrown there in the middle. And I think that’s one of the things I enjoy about this movie is they have all of these things that just seems like a little deal, but when you stop and think about what they’re saying, you’re like, wait a second.
There’s a whole lot to
Stephen: unpack there. Yeah. Yeah. It’s de it is definitely got layers to the movie. Yeah.
Rhys: Like a lasagna. Ah. Newt gets a moment alone with Eric and he’s do you see if there’s, is that a, do you see a person standing out there? And Eric’s I can’t see that far. And newt’s it’s the farmer’s daughter.
And Eric says, that’s impossible. And if you’re watching the first, for the first time, you’re like, oh no. We know why it’s impossible. Newt wonders
Stephen: why, and that that right there, when he said that, and I was thinking this just shows again what’s horrific. The things that are horrible in the movie are the people , cause so many times is it the people doing the really horrible things or as horrible as the supernatural elements?
Rhys: Yeah. They keep moving forward. They find a wolf. It has clo its own eyes out. And Samsky calls Newt over to ask him if he’s ever seen such a thing. And N’s like, no I guess because he’s finished.
Maybe Salinsky thinks this is just something that Wolves do in Finland. , I don’t know, but
Stephen: Oh, it’s Eyes are out. It must be a Finn Wolf. , yeah.
Rhys: Basically is Eric with Eson and Musco and Eric is pushing Musco a lot and Musco Pulls has played out, and Rubicon’s put it away. Put it away. And the first one is that he’s talking about Russian Orthodox and how they’re not even really Christians.
They’re just ridiculous people. That’s the first one he draws his sword on. Then he is look, Moscos just upset because he’s too young to have actually fought in the war and he didn’t get a chance to prove his manhood and to hang out and be gay. And I know you like my brother, but he’s not gay.
And that’s when he draws his sword. The second.
Stephen: So there’s a whole nother aspect into the movie that he’s leading
Rhys: out . And it ties back to the whole thing. Ram Musco is I’ve never seen a more beautiful map kind of thing, right? Then Soki comes over and he is tells Eric, the glass is making almost seem civilized, but you’re actually just an old, invalid, afraid of peace.
And this will take away your right, do all the murderous things that are in your heart. And that is a perfect encapsulation of who Eric actually is. Yeah. They’re moving through the swamp. Some of the pages of newts get blown away. He goes over to collect them all one’s gun quite far, and he goes over to pick it up and when he looks up, there’s the farmer’s daughter standing there.
She’s covered in black slime. He runs away and loses his footing and starts to fall down this short embankment that would’ve dropped him in the water. Which I guess as a cartographer, that could be very disastrous. .
Stephen: Yeah. Especially with the paper and stuff, then . Yeah.
Rhys: But Mosco is there and catches him and helps him up and is holding him, helping him to his feet.
Eric sees this happen and calls new to away and then newts. I saw the girl, she was as close to me as you are. Eric’s it’s not the same girl. And at this point he’s I know it’s not the same girl. Cause I never let her out. Which on the one hand I was relieved cuz I was like, he just went down and raped, raped and killed her.
Raped and killed her. Yeah. But then it’s oh wait, he didn’t, oh wait, he just left her locked up. How long have they been
Stephen: gone? Which is more horrible actually.
Rhys: Newt is we’ve gotta turn around. We’ve gotta go let her out. And Eric’s the Russians wouldn’t agree with that. And it’s as soon as we get to the city, I’m gonna go find her.
And as he’s walking away from this conversation, he sees in the middle of this swamp, there’s a sauna built. It’s squat, it’s ugly, it’s isolated from everything and it’s just sitting there all by itself. Everyone seems a little like what in the world? Roon seems, there’s a moment where Roon seems very interested in the sauna too, but it doesn’t come into play till later.
Eric sees a structure through the trees and they go to find good to see what the structure is. And it’s an entire village. They’re walking through and there’s these women, they’re just working and they like look up and see that Soldiers are walking in their village and they’re like, eh, . They keep doing what?
Keep doing. Got the t-shirt. Yeah. And this boy comes up to them and Eric’s notices that the boy’s looking at the glasses and he says, who’s in charge? And the boy says, father. And Eric’s go get him. So the boy runs off and then one of the villagers asks if the war is still going on in the south. And Samsky says, no, the wars long over.
We’re a commission of the emperor of Russia and the King of Sweden. Turns out there’s no record of this town having ever existed. And they’re like, it’s in the center of the swamp and it has no name. This really upsets Newt because he thought they were on the northern edge of the swamp. He thought they had crossed it.
Yeah. And here they’re actually right in the middle,
Stephen: another bad sign, a Pureing villages. And you’re wandering around in a remote area that nobody has mapped before. Those are all bad signs.
Rhys: Yes, . And he’s sitting there after the next scene looking at his map. He’s trying to figure out what’s where did he go wrong?
And the boy comes in and he is looking over the o through the window and he is like, what is it? And it’s it’s a map. It’s how God sees the earth. There’s also notes on the side says how, who lives, where, how many people live there, who collected taxes there in the past, and whether they’re Russian or Swedish Now, It’s good point that
Stephen: that part is to me, obviously it seems weird that they were rushing, now they’re Swedish, now we’re go tax ’em.
But you were taxing ’em before and now we’re gonna switch it again. And here they’re they end up later splitting the town down the middle. It’s, yeah, we’ve got a town like that in America, but it’s oh yeah, I live on the Swedish side of the town, but across the road all they need to do is put a Berlin wall up down through the swampy.
It, it just seems a little weird, but politics,
Rhys: the wall would cost more than the whole village is worth the boy comes in and we find out the boys only ever lived in the village and he’s taking Eric’s clothes off the rafters. And Eric comes in and assumes he’s stealing them. I don’t know why he’d assume that, cuz nut is sitting right there.
It’s not like Newt’s just gonna let the kids steal his clothes. Not
Stephen: like the kid’s trying to sneak it. He’s just standing right out in the open doing it.
Rhys: Yeah, Eric reaches back to Smash Smack the boy who recoils and then runs off and Eric’s like strange boy and Newt replies not for this village
Stephen: Yeah, that was a good
Rhys: line. Then he notes how clean all the peasants are. They’re all so clean. So Eric goes out to, which
Stephen: is interesting because I read once that some papers studied, blah, blah, blah, whatever, that during the dark ages that they were actually much cleaner than we’ve always said, or given ’em credit for, that it was actually a high priority for them.
And they sometimes bathed several times a day. We always picture as, but they weren’t. And other things like the Vikings, how they were actually very colorful, not just the earth tones that we always put ’em in, so I do like things like this. And other movies that sometimes show things differently because it brings out what it may really be.
And dinosaurs with feathers, we didn’t grow up with dinosaurs, with feathers, no. So it is things are changing, but I think that’s one of the things movies do sometimes if they do it right, is bring these things out that are different. So the villagers being clean may just be real.
Yeah, and it’s
Rhys: also really interesting to me because Eric and Newt are both like members of the aristocracy. They’re not like Dukes or anything like that because Newt wants to own his own land, but they come from an entitled family. There’s a small family. And so a lot of times I believe those people, Thought that the peasants who they never, ever saw who lived out in the sticks were just filthy mud balls.
And so it was just an assumption they made.
Stephen: Yeah. Eric’s going to teach at Univer or Newts gonna teach at university that Very prestigious. And I thought that was another thing that kinda hit me as wow, 15 hundreds, and they’re talking about a school, university learning.
Again it’s, it just struck me as it doesn’t always enter our learning in school. How these things actually were and where they were in time and all that.
Rhys: Yeah. It’s funny because I took a lot of classes in the Renaissance and the Middle Ages for art history. And so every time I hear these dates, I’m always, because I took like an entire semester just on the Italian Renaissance, I’m always tying them back to what were they doing in Italy at this time?
And so by this time the Renaissance was over in Italy, but it had, it still was going on because it migrated again. It went north. And it was going on in the northern kines while they were heading into Rococo and the enlightenment down towards Italy. So
Stephen: I I sometimes will do that with music history cuz you know, I had to go through that e except for stuff with opera.
I f literally fell asleep with opera, some .
Rhys: Wow. Yeah, no offense. Anne
Stephen: didn’t do too well with that one.
Rhys: Eric’s washing off his hand, there’s this little jump scare cuz Newt was actually bathing at the same time and he like pops up out of the. And it’s cra I’m floored by that because it’s so cold. You can see the steam coming off of it.
It’s climbing outta there. Yeah. If I was a peasant there, I would be filthy as well, if that’s what it
Stephen: took to be clean. Exactly. And it never is really that sunny. It’s great overcast the entire time.
Rhys: It’s really funny to me because the entire time they’re walking all the scenery here makes me think of here.
Yeah. It’s overcast, it’s forested, it’s marshy. It could just literally be down the street at the public hunting grounds. Yeah, true. That’s exactly what it looks like back there. Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Newt insists he’s gotta go back and save this girl. And Eric’s insisting we don’t all the lives that were lost in the Russo, Swedish war will be for nothing if they give away any territory to rush at this point.
And Nutts like making a border is not about justifying lost lives. Those lives are lost no matter what we do here isn’t gonna bring them back. The wound on Eric hand, Eric’s hand seems to be bothering him even more. And he’s taking his glasses off and now he realizes how blind he is Without them, he’s like too old to practice the one profession he knows.
He just wants the land of his own and to be a better father than they had. Then he puts on his glasses and he says 73 again. He says, I’ve done far worse than leave a girl in the cellar. Newt still insists he’s headed back, but Eric points out that it, you work for the king and when you do, you forget things.
Newt reminds him. You are the one who killed the girl’s father. And Eric’s I was saving our lives. He had an ActX. You saw the ActX, right? And it’s no, I didn’t .
Stephen: Yeah. They’re stressed out a little bit. Now they’re starting to know at each other a
Rhys: little bit. There is, and there’s this kind of P T s D thing going on with Eric where first I thought he was just justifying it, but maybe he actually did think the guy had an ax.
Or maybe that’s just a story he made up.
Stephen: Yeah. It’s not clear, but it obviously as a movie has progressed and that he does have a certain level of guilt about what he’s done because he brings it up a lot. Yeah. It’s not as, oh, I just forgot about it cuz I had to do it type of thing, which he portrays, but he really is it’s ruminating not in his mind constantly and it’s eating at him as he is.
Yeah. Getting through the movie.
Rhys: And as this eats at him, locking the girl in the cellar eats at Newt. So they both have something in their conscience that’s weighing them down. It’s kinda like
Stephen: that one thing will absolve them of all the other past problems and crimes and that’ll be the end of the war type thing.
It’s this one act will make a difference.
Rhys: And that becomes super important. Roon is out in the swamp. He’s looking at the sauna. He can’t seem to stay away from it. He’s getting closer to it. He hears this singing and he asks if it’s his mother. Which would be an odd thing for your mom to suddenly be in the sauna in the middle of the swamp in Finland when you’re Russian.
Stephen: Yeah. He ate some bad berries somewhere. He’s in it .
Rhys: The only thing that keeps him from going into the sauna is Musco shows up and it’s Zinski’s looking for you. We’ve got food. And so he leaves, Samsky is questioning the people who they pay taxes to, and they’re like, no one’s ever come to get any.
So he’s still trying to figure out who they’re, that are, like, are you Lutheran or Russian Orthodox? And the elder is sitting there and he is we don’t have a church and we don’t have a priest to decide that for us. Newt says, who does the sauna belong to and who built it? And the. Village, the people from the village look at him.
But before they can ask that, Eric just flat out asks them, are you Russian or Swedish? And the village elders like, maybe it’s easier. A few gentlemen decide,
Stephen: just tell us. We don’t care. Just tell us.
Rhys: We just want to be left alone. So they’re supposed to put down how many villagers were in, how many people were in the village.
They write it down a piece of paper and hand it to Eric and he looks at it and he’s 73 people .
Stephen: Yeah, that’s a coincidence. So here again, what is real, what’s not? Is all this really exist? Is all this really happening? There’s a little bit of questioning there.
Rhys: And then the village elder points out that includes children, women, and old ones and all, which is yes, you have killed 73 people.
And we are like all represented, all of the children. Granted, you haven’t killed that many children. There’s only one child here. Lots of women are here in town. And Eric does not miss the significance of that number. He recognizes that something
Stephen: is up. His jaw drops, he looks at his brother as very obvious.
Something’s bothering him there.
Rhys: And then newt’s that’s an awful lot of people. . Oh, thanks brother. The boy brings some food to Eric and Eric asks are, where are the other children? And the boy’s there aren’t any, it’s just me. Then he closes the door trapping the boy inside. He’s got his dagger in his hand and it’s looking ominous kind of thing.
But he’s, I don’t wanna say he’s being nice cuz he’s not, because he’s definitely just using his. , but he’s taking it from peaceful stacked. He’s not like threatening with the knife. He’s if you give me any information about how long you’ve been here or the people have been here, I will make you an official of the King of Sweden.
Can’t get any more official than that. And the boy’s I will give you information if you take me with you when you leave. He’s done. So the boy takes him to a shed where these old papers are kept going into the shed. It’s almost like a storage unit.
Stephen: Yes. It was weird. And it’s like nobody went to it.
It was locked up. It reminded me of that hut off in the distance in midsummer that they referred to. Yeah. So it, I was waiting for other major significance with this. I don’t think it, it did as much as I was expecting, but Audrey mentioned
Rhys: The distant hut midsummer because both of these structures end up burnt.
Stephen: Yeah. Yeah, that’s interesting too. Yeah. Okay. So I guess there’s two tropes now that we’ve got .
Rhys: Nude finds a book, it’s written in Russian. They can’t read it. There’s this kneeling figure with its head bowed, buried under a blanket. It’s a statue. Eric’s we need to talk to the village elder. We don’t want Samsky to know this book’s here, because Eric doesn’t want there to be any sign of this ever being a Russian colony. He wants this to be finished. So he sends nude out to find the elder, and he is flipping through. There’s a bunch of painted icons and he is flipping through them.
And then he comes across this one that seems very out of. It is of a hooded figure with no face and its arms are up, not like elevated over its head, but they’re like up almost like it’s about to do something and it strikes him so odd that he takes his glasses off to see if they’re fogged up or something.
Maybe that would explain why this almost demonic looking icon is here amidst all the rest of these. Just as he is doing that. Newt returns with the village elder, but it’s not the actual village elder. It’s just another one of the old people from the village. The guy comes in, he is don’t know anything about anything that’s in here.
So Newt and Eric step out and lock the guy in the shed. . Yeah, sure. When you’re ready to tell us stuff, then we’ll listen. The guy’s quite upset that he is in there,
Stephen: so he does seem to know more, but he doesn’t wanna let on or
Rhys: say, right? Yeah. Eric suspects that the people here were Russian monks. and the guy in the huts, like when we arrived, the only thing left of people were robes scattered across the ground.
Some people think that the people abandoned their faith. Other people think they were taken away nutts like, who did you think Were taking the monks away? And at this point in time, we get a picture that figure with its arms up in its head bound and it seems to start to cry. This same black I or that was on the feet in the dress of the ghost of the girl that’s been chasing nut this whole time.
The filth. Yes, the filth. I don’t know why don’t use that word. It is like one of the titles of the movie. I should just put filth in my notes. The camera closes in on this icon of this hooded figure, and then there’s interspersed shots of the sauna. Standing alone, there’s a voice whispering.
It’s me. The old man starts to scream. There’s this whispering singing thing going on. Then Eric kicks the door open and everything stops, and the man’s lying. They’re dead. He’s got blood running out, rushing out of his mouth. Eric grabs a torch, nutts like, eh, another dead body grabs the guy and starts dragging him out the door.
And the statue still has that filth running down from its eyes. Eric just burns the building to the ground. Yeah.
Stephen: Huh? What you gonna do, ? Yeah. Now that’ll attract attention and the Russians might question what you’re doing but people do
Rhys: approach. It’s burning. Newt actually accuses Eric.
He’s this will end badly for us just because you left that girl in the cellar and Eric’s like, why did you lock her up and newt’s like it was to protect her from you? Then Eric points out, no, you were lusting after her. You were about to rape this girl and Newt actually starts to tear up. Yeah.
Because while he was down there in the cellar, those kind of thoughts were occurring to him. And then he realized that they were occurring and he stopped. But now his brother’s calling him out on it and he realizes, yes maybe I’m a horrible person. And then Eric’s is it really safe for you to go and let her out?
With that running around in your mind? At this point we find out that this strange boy in the village is actually a girl. It just comes up in conversation because the village elders like have you seen our daughter? And he’s daughter. And he is yes. Because she was the only one in the village.
Sometimes she dresses up as a boy. We just let her do what she wants cuz she’s the only one here. So it turns out that the boy is actually a girl and I’m trying to. Chew through the significance of that. I
Stephen: was trying to wonder that too. I couldn’t, that was one of the things I was like, okay, why? And place it.
Rhys: on the one hand I think it’s interesting the fact that Eric treats them both the same way, regardless of gender. It makes no difference at all to him, right? He will treat them as a means to an ends, there’s something to be used. And gender makes no difference to him on that. On the other hand, yeah I don’t know.
I, I chewed over that a bit. Newt goes looking for Salinsky to translate the book, and he opens the door to the hut where Zinsky should be, and it’s just blackness. And this hand reaches out this kind of gray, dead looking hand. It opens his mouth and then it puts something in his mouth, almost like the Eucharist, right?
Stephen: taking communion.
Rhys: Yeah, the hands withdraw and then this face leans in. You can see newt’s eyes are just closed and it whispers into his ear. And then it disappears. And Musco and samsky show up and they look at Newton and Newton, they look at Newton newt’s we need to save our souls. And he spits out what’s in his mouth and it was a tooth. He gives the book to Samsky because it’s in Russian. Samsky decides to put the border straight to the middle of the village. The sauna will make the official edge.
They’ll put Russian marks on one side and Swedish marks on the other. And then the village elders like, Come with me just so Misk and Eric, and he takes ’em to this building where there’s all these sick villagers, and this is where you have the souls thing pop up. They’re lying in beds, they’re suffering with various sicknesses illnesses, but none of them die.
The children in the village, the one child in the village was born on the way to the village. And zinski’s what is that a big deal of? And Eric’s it, it’s a superstition. When Finnish people have a child that’s born, the newborn is taken into a sauna, and the steam of the sauna washes away your previous sins and all the sins you’ll commit in the future.
It’s not unlike like baptism in a way. And so that boy slash girl is not been purified. Of all the sins of her past
Stephen: a and very significant that there’s been no other children born. And this kid’s 12 maybe. Yeah there’s been nobody but nobody’s died. They’re all kinda lingering,
They won’t die. They’re just sitting here. It cuts to Newt outside. He sees this trail of papers that leads off between these two houses. He walks over and he follows them. And inside the building, among all these papers is a dead roon. . He’s got all of these papers
Stephen: lined. I hate when you just have a dead roon line around.
You gotta get rid of it again. And
Rhys: I’ve got three or four. I really need to cut back.
back in the sick house, Eric finds this man who dug his own eyes out and he asks why. And this nurse looks at him and doesn’t really answer him, but she says before that he chewed off his tongue and his hands. Nut comes up and finds Zinsky and lets him know that Roon is dead. And
Stephen: the guy with the eyes, yes.
I was like, okay. Now obviously we had the wolf earlier, further away. I couldn’t quite figure out what they were trying to say with finding the wolf earlier. Just portent that this was coming or what the significance was that the wolf obviously had been here and got away or something. I wasn’t sure on that one either.
Yeah. So the villagers,
Rhys: it turns out were finished and they were sick of being hassled by people. And so they moved into the swamp and they found this place where the monks had set up, but the monks were all gone, leaving nothing, but they were closed behind. And ever since they’ve been here, no one’s died.
They just continue to suffer as they were. There happened to be 73 of them, the exact number of people that Eric has killed. I think that if you take an entire village, you may have a person who, not unlike a wolf, Is very attuned to nature and their surroundings. And being that close to the sauna, which is actually a source of ancient evil something caused both the wolf and like this guy to become unbalanced
Stephen: And see what you just said.
One of the things I started thinking of is, did Eric’s conscience guiltiness create the village? Like you said, they’re all like the, he, all the people he killed, they, the, their souls went to the village to condemn him later in life or his being guilty kept the village there, kept it alive.
Rhys: And that’s a really interesting point because my first thought was these are the souls of all the people he’s killed. Yeah. But then, The majority of those 73 have to have been soldiers, because he was a cavalryman in war. And there’s not that many soldier aged men in this village
Stephen: It’s a soul.
So it doesn’t have to have the same physical manifestation
Rhys: perhaps. Or maybe the people have been trapped here until someone who has the weight of 73 souls on his head shows up, and that’s what releases them for good. Or ill at the end of the movie,
Stephen: th this could be a really good R p g Sounds like a good campaign.
Rhys: Oh yeah. This would be a great, yeah. This would be silent Hill, 1595.
Stephen: Oh wow. Man. Why isn’t somebody on this?
Rhys: Yeah. It turns out Roon had written all over these papers in with his own blood. And Eric wants to know what it says, and he’s it says he thinks he’s a small, locked in a cellar, like he’s a small child.
There’s food in the cellar, even something to drink, but Roon drinks his own blood because he’s afraid. And Eric’s what’s he afraid of? And Zinski’s there’s someone in the cellar with him. And so that kind of okay, this is no longer just something in their head. There’s definitely, if this was your guilt, it has expanded.
Stephen: it to me. It’s like a twilight zone or they’ve entered the quantum realm and they’re in like, literally like a whole different universe. They just don’t realize it. They crossed over. Yeah. Yeah.
Rhys: Samsky informs Newt the next day that the book was written by the monks who used to live here.
They found this sauna long before they set up their church. So the sauna predates the church and they seem to think that the sauna could wash away their sins without prayers, without confession. That’s only, they think it only appears to be a sauna because they can’t understand what it really is. And especially at that time that’s sacrilege.
There is only one way to achieve your sins being washed away and you can’t just do it on your own by going into
Stephen: Asana. That again, this would be a great R ppg. . Yeah.
Rhys: This is one of the other things that I find as an aside, looking at Finnish culture everybody knows about like Norwegian and Swedish culture because you’re talking about Thor and Odin and the Vikings and all that.
The Fins had their own mythology. They had their own people. And like the, I’m gonna slaughter this, but Vina, moyen was like the head of their, of the, of like their pantheon. And the life force of the sauna that loyally has been called the sweat of Vietnam moan, then again, really sorry for that, but that’s how entwined this is.
This is a place that had like its own gods long before Christianity and they’re gods that nobody really knows anything about except the fins.
Stephen: And it’s not uncommon in horror or mythology have some sacred place that’s corrupted because of an evil act. could also be something that was holy and predates.
Rhys: Yeah. It was who to a different group. And if you’re going to walk in there with your Christian views, it’s not going to end well for you. .
Stephen: That’s true. . Yeah. Again, it’s some of the different layers of the movie.
Rhys: Yeah. Eric is talking to the nurse and he’s like, why are the people in the village scared of the sauna?
And she doesn’t answer that. She’s like, why are you wearing glasses? And he is like, well, they reflect light differently and I can see better. And I got them from my brother. And he was really like the best of us. He was the best of the whole family. And he’s, it’s, he’s important and she’s you need to take care of him.
Because darkness doesn’t reflect light. It absorbs, it interspersed with this scene we see Newt is walking. Into the swamp and he is walking into the sauna. So it’s too late to save him or new. Yeah. And
Stephen: I was like, man, you gotta walk through waste high, freezing cold, yucky swamp water to get the sauna to wash your sins.
You gotta be
Rhys: committed. Yeah, it’s true. Before he, before we get to him being in it you have Eric who’s looking at the wound on his hand. He is actually the nurse about it, and she says, the best place to heal that wound is to go back to where you got it.
Stephen: A and so all of this again, kinda leads back to it’s Eric’s life and actions that created the village that corrupted the sauna that is causing all of this to happen.
That’s that’s what I started to think. I it wasn’t very clear to me, but that was the direction my brain was taking with all of this. Yeah.
Rhys: Now Newt goes into the sauna and the first thing I notice is that when he goes in, it’s all black. He’s got this torch. But it seems way bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.
Stephen: Yeah. It’s a portal to another realm. .
Rhys: Yes. It goes in for quite a ways. It’s a sauna. Infinite holding.
Yes. He walks in and he sees a figure hands covering the face. It’s the peasant girl, but she’s not wearing a dress anymore. It could have been a weeping angel. She takes her hands away from her face and her face is literally just running filth.
Yeah. And she’s like, why didn’t you come back for me? And he’s is it too late? And then she gives him the embrace of a spirit that’s going. Consume your soul, which is of what happens . Yeah. We cut to Zinsky and Musco and they’re standing there and they’re burying poor dead roon. And while they’re doing that, I just sat there looking at it and I’m like, that really looks like he’s shoveling coal on top of him.
Stephen: it was weird.
Rhys: Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I’m not really sure why. Maybe that’s all they found that was lying around. They could bury him with, but it doesn’t seem like a good burial
Stephen: kind of material. They’re in a swamp, so any, you dig half a foot down and it’s just go fill with water and muck and it’s all soft earth in that.
Rhys: We cut to Eric, who’s in the swamp. , I think he notes that his brother might be missing. Maybe that’s what drove him there. But he walks out into the middle of the swamp and he faces the sauna and he like pulls his sword and he’s bring it on. I’ve had enough of this. This is a very Brian thing.
I’ve had enough of this monkeying around. Let’s just get down to it. And then he he like almost assaults the water. And he’s at this point he’s he’s almost repentant. Yes. And he’s not repentant in that he’s sorry for what he’s done, but he’s I’m going to save one person. I’m going to do one good thing. And then he assaults the water again. He’s bring it on. Bring it on. I’m not like my brother. And he stands up. And if you notice, when he does.
There’s no doorway into the sauna anymore. Oh, I didn’t
Stephen: notice that.
Rhys: It’s closed to him. He can’t go
Stephen: in. What I did notice was he throws his sword away and he always used his sword to break up the reflection, to not face what he had done. And the sword always protected him and also caused a lot of the problems.
But now he’s throwing it away. So I took it like he’s facing what he’s done. He’s looking at the reflection. And that’s a good point. I guess he wasn’t looking for nude because that night, the next scene, he’s in his cabin with nude who’s back is turned to him and he’s okay, we’ll go back and let that girl out.
Rhys: I’ll sit down with Samsky in the morning. I’ll sign whatever I need to. I’ll sign for you. We’ll just turn around and we will go back and we’ll let her out. You have to accept the fact that it might be too late for that. And he is and if that’s the case, then my my number’s gonna go up to 74.
And this whole time Nutts back has turned to him and he doesn’t say anything. Yeah, it’s very sick. And then he notes that Newt is sitting on Zinski’s book of plant specimens and he is is that his collection? And he is yes, they’re wet. I promised I’d sit on them and he still doesn’t turn around and look at him.
And Eric’s okay, whatever, but we’ve gotta be ready to go tomorrow. Then there’s this really cool little shot of the fire and you see all of Zinski’s plants burning up in the fire. . If you had any doubt in your mind that’s not really why Newt was sitting on top of a book in this cabin, that’s all been washed away now.
Yeah. The crazy thing to me though, from all this is Eric, he’s just okay, you better be ready to go in the morning. Pulls a blanket up, rolls over and goes to sleep. Yeah.
Stephen: Buddy’s a heartened soldier, so this stuff doesn’t ha he’s not let it bother him.
Rhys: It’s true. And he doesn’t to this point, I don’t know that he accepts any kind of supernatural anything going on.
You know what I mean? He’s used to fighting actual things and this is something that’s not actual. He can’t
Stephen: fight it. So based on all that, do you think when Newt saw the girl and said, do you, is that a human standing over there? And he said, I can’t see it. It’s too far away. Do you think he was lying to himself even maybe He did see it, but he didn’t want to even admit that.
Rhys: Maybe it’s arguable. I think it’s one of those kind of things like the guy had an ax and everybody knows the guy didn’t have an ax, but that’s the story he tells himself to get through the day. Yeah, right. and his vision might not have been great, and he might have looked over there and thought that kinda looks like a girl.
And then when Newt asks him about it, he’s oh no. And I can’t say that for it, it’s just the story he tells himself. It goes from there to a scene of the the nurse and she’s like blowing a candle out and she’s obviously terrified of something. From there. , it goes to the day of time and we see the boy slash girl running down this alley and she like gets into a hut and like locks herself in the hut and she’s like looking through the cracks in the window and you’re like what is, what’s going on?
What’s so frightening that’s going on and oblivious to all this going on? You have zinsky and Musco sitting in a hut with Eric as Eric’s getting ready to sign these papers and he is look, we’ve gotta turn back to blah, blah blah, and sim minsky’s. That’s fine. We’ve just fi decided that Sweden can have this place.
And Eric’s sitting there puzzled and Zinsky says, I believe the Russian empire is the bigger place without these lands.
Stephen: That was an
Rhys: interesting line. Yeah. Especially from a guy who’s all about law and order. So Eric goes ahead and signs. and he is my brother’s got the cignet ring, I’ll have to go back and get it.
So he heads off to go get it and he walks out and he, that’s when he notices there’s nobody left in the town. Everyone’s gone. Then he gets into the book, goes into where his brother was seizes, the book his brother was sitting on, opens it up and page after page is nothing but filth until he gets to a page in the back.
He flips it over and there’s a patch of skin on there. And that patch of skin is the skin from between nudes, shoulder blades with the birthmark. And how remember you get that off yourself,
right? And if you remember the guy was saying they came here where the monks. And the monks were gone.
There were just your clothes on the ground. When Eric walks outside the village, people are gone and their clothes are all just lying on the ground. When he is looking at that patch of skin, he turns it sideways and he says 75. And the birth mark looks like a 75. Yeah.
Stephen: Yeah. You know what happened to the monks and the villages?
What it really was, it was Stans. He snapped and boom.
Rhys: Yeah. We cut back to Zinsky and Musco and Zinski’s look, if he doesn’t get back soon, we’re just leaving. And then he is reading through ROEs and spit notes and he is like, oh. It says here in his notes, Robeson’s just said he didn’t get a chance to kill all of us.
He’s just sorry that he didn’t kill us all. It cuts from there to Eric being in the sick house and he goes through the sick house and there’s nobody there. , all the blankets are just lying there. This
Stephen: actually happened in the Stargate TV show that oh yeah they ascended a whole village, Daniel, when he was with the gods or whatever, he ascended a whole village.
So that’s what happened here.
Rhys: Yeah. Samsky is in the room with Mosco and he’s reading the notes that Robeson left and it says that he was trying to, he wished he could spare them all before tomorrow because something was gonna happen on tomorrow. And at that point Samsky is oh, that means today.
Oh yeah, if he wrote this yesterday, that means today. And suddenly it dawns on Musco. Oh my gosh. That’s today. And we don’t know why that’s important to Musco, but he gets up and kills Samsky, stabs him through the back.
Stephen: Yeah, that was like the weirdest. I was like, okay, I now I really don’t know what’s going on.
The only thing I could think of is because Newt was infected and Musco was kinda liking him, that it infected him too. It was starting to, all the people left are getting infected is what it seen.
Rhys: It actually answers it for you here in a second kind of . Because the first thing I thought was really interesting is Samsky turns to look at Musco who just stabbed him and Musco stops him.
Yeah. Because Zinski’s always been a father figure to him. He doesn’t wanna make eye contact with him while he’s killing him. . Then he points out that the only thing that’s important to him is Newt. He’s in love with Newt’s. The only thing important, and last night, Newt came to him and asked him to give him a presence.
And so whether or not it was organic that this spread. Or it was just Newt whispering poison into his ear. Musco has already been infected. Yeah. That, that
Stephen: filled contact.
Rhys: Yes. That contact has been made. The filth has been spread. We cut back to Eric, who’s walking through one of the places. He finds something that’s he finds a blank pile of blankets.
He pulls it back and it’s the girl. And he pulls the girl up and he doesn’t hurt her, but in his head, he’s formulating a plan always formulating a plan. He asks her if she’s seen his brother and she says, no.
she says he’s not your brother anymore. And she has blood on his, on her mouth, not unlike Eson. He asked her if she can still speak because she has the blood on her mouth. And that bleeding from the mouth thing is it’s a theme, right? Like she’s bleeding from the mouth. Roon was bleeding from the mouth.
The guy in the cabin that they burnt down was bleeding from the mouth. The one guy ate his, his tongue, one guy bit off his tongue, and then Newt had communion with a tooth so the whole bleeding from the mouth thing is kind of a deal. Or their vampires, oh wait, sorry.
I’m not saying they’re vampires, I’m not saying vampires have anything to do with this.
Yeah, I didn’t, however that vibe at all. There is not uncommonly that vampiric vibe that shows up in literature like at the end of the fall, the House of Usher. The guys, there’re dead and his sister’s attacking him and then she has blood on her mouth. It’s just this hint about about there being vampiric elements.
The girl says that Newt has taken everyone to the sauna with him. It turns out he did take everyone to the sauna because Mosco was still in that other building with the body. The door opens, we don’t get to see who comes in. Mosco gets all dressed and that’s the last we see of Mosco until his last scene at the end.
This is where Eric finally comes up with a plan. He’s still gotta save one life. It’s gonna be the girl. So he goes in, he takes the map, he takes the notes, bundles it all up, writes it all down, and he gives it to the girl. He p like, put all the foods you can find in a sack. Get everything you need to travel.
You’re gonna leave here and go straight north. You go north until you get to the village. When you get to the village, give this to the, give this to the officials there. Once you give this package to the officials there, then I want you to go to my house. I, how does she do that? Who knows? I’m sure there’s some records somehow, but he, she’s supposed to go to the house, find his wife, and tell her that he loved her with the last eyes.
That saw his eyes delivered the
Stephen: look in his eyes. Yeah.
Rhys: Yes. Which I thought, wow, that’s crazy. And The girls like, how am I gonna get out? He digs this little hole in the back of the cabin and then he is I will distract everybody.
Stephen: You though, it’d be a whole lot cheaper to just deliver the look in your eyes for Valentine’s Day then chocolates and flowers and stuff.
Rhys: Oh, absolutely. .
Stephen: But I delivered the look in you, my eyes.
Rhys: Yeah. The girl’s can’t you come with me? He’s no, the plan is for me to stay here. This is the only way you can, you’ll be able to get out. So he digs the hole and she takes off. He does tell her his last name. So you know, you have this guy who was on a special commission representing the king of Sweden.
I suppose she could probably. Track down, use that enough information to track him down. He proceeds to remove all of his clothes, walks out into the swamp. And he’s the first person I see who actually you can see on his face call it is . He’s ah he’s got the wound to his hand.
They’ve focused in on that and he walks into the darkness.
He’s walking through the darkness. He sits down. There’s a torch, he says, I can see perfectly in here. And it’s that will you have transcended beyond living? Your body is no longer hindering you anymore, right? Newt is standing there pouring buckets of water over. You never actually get a good look at Newt.
You don’t get to see his face. You do see like his hands and things like that, but never his face. The girl on the other hand is outside. She’s running away. She’s got this great big bundle with her. Does the bundle remind anybody of anything yet? And it starts to snow. She continues north for a while because like it’s getting dark and it starts to snow and then she, it’s lighter and she’s running around and snow is fallen everywhere and she gets to this river.
And snow is always seen as like a way to blanket over, right? Because everything looks clean with a white sheet of snow on top of it, right? She’s standing there, she’s looking at the river. She knows she’s supposed to turn and head to the city. She’s wondering what which direction that might be back in the sauna.
Newt’s I need to show you something. And Eric’s no I don’t want to see it. And newt’s there’s nothing to fear. It’s okay. And we cut back to the girl, she’s standing on the rock and she sees a body lying on the rock and she’s walking down to see what’s up with that body. And as she gets closer, the body looks strangely mosco without a shirt on, lying on this rock.
And just about the time she realizes that the body gets up and she starts to run. When that happens in the sauna, the hands grab Eric. Then we cut back to the girl, and moose’s face is gone. It is nothing but filth running. and nut’s. Hands are on top of Eric’s eyes and the filth is just pouring down his body.
And so it is that the filth conquers everybody. It takes everybody over. Even the girl, as she dies, she turns and she looks up and like her eyes, it might just be the camera, but her eyes are like all black, right? And she’s actually bleeding. Yeah. She’s not covered in filth.
She’s got blood falling on her. But Mosco is there and the void that is his face is pouring the filth down on top of her as she dies. And we cut back to that scene from beginning where the water starts to screwing red and there’s a package floating down the river, right? So Eric fails to save anybody.
His guilt finally overcomes him in the sauna. and the border of Finland had never has been solved. It’s always been a mystery ever since .
Stephen: And this also is kinda the supernatural, questionable cause the package they pick up is the package they gave her to deliver at the end. So it’s this loop thing.
So it questions what part of this was real and happened, or what part wasn’t.
Rhys: At first I thought that was the case too. Then I thought, no, that scene at the beginning was just showing you the end and this is what happens at the end, but it’s so confusing. You don’t know what it is. Now here’s the rest of the story and then here’s the end of the, but they do get
Stephen: the package.
So was that the package they, yeah it was, it seemed like a loop there because the package they pick up at the beginning is the package they gave to the girl at the end that gets into the river so that they can pick it up.
Rhys: It’s hard to say. Part of me hopes that the people who find the package are the peasants who Eric was just killing, who were chasing them, because then what they end up in their hands with is the thing that was most important to Eric to secure his future and everything.
And so they’re the ones who get it and he’s never is going to get his wife’s not going to be hailed as anything great. And his whole efforts were for nothing. Which, but,
Stephen: which works if the villagers really existed. ,
Rhys: right. Or if any of that happened, right? . But it is one of those kind of ambiguous endings where the one thing you can agree on is that everybody in the village is no more if they existed or not.
That’s arguable. But everybody who was in the village is no more. The cartographer and his brother no more. The Russians are no more. And of all of those, Musco was the one who just willingly accepted it because of his love for nut. Everyone else, like Roon, succumbeded to like his home sickness. That’s what finally drew him in.
Zinsky was just betrayed basically by one of his own soldiers, which as an officer that would be horrible. True. So that closes out Sauna and it closes out season three.
Stephen: So there goes season three. We got a Bo couple bonus episodes and we got season four coming up with some interesting looking movies.
What’s the first one for season four after our bonuses. I am going to, I know I’m always like, I gotta stop myself, but I’m gonna lead with a little story on this one. Season four starts with the movie Baskin and Baskin. I think might be Turkish. It is like a visual equivalent to martyrs where martyrs screws with your head.
Rhys: Baskin is very visual. Again, I’m gonna go out and say it’s probably will be the heaviest film we do. It was so popular and obscure, which is a hard thing to do because it was a foreign film when it came out. I had to wait six months Wow. To get my hands on the movie. Wow. And that’s not six months to hunt it down.
It was like, oh yes, this movie exists. I wanna put it on hold. Six months later, the movie came in. Wow. Now, this was before the days of streaming and everything. I This was through the library. It took forever. But it wouldn’t surprise me if you have a hard. No, I think I’ve
Stephen: got basking already for us.
Oh, Dave. Yeah. I think it’s getting out there a little bit more prevalent.
Rhys: Yeah it’s something else. It is a movie about jobs and the jobs in this case are police officers. I think I counted up. We have two movies about police and two or three movies about teachers, and then everything else is a smattering of different
Wow. Okay. All right then. We’ll get on to Baskin in season four soon. We got the holidays coming up. We’re gonna take slight little break for the holidays, so we’re not only not watching horror movies while it’s supposed to be joyous, but we get very busy. This the guy
Rhys: watching Christmas horror.
All the that’s
Stephen: different, . All right, man. I’ll talk to you later. All right. Take
Rhys: it easy. See ya.